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embrace yourself because you're about to

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dive into another free first hour

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episode of the higher side chats and we

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just want to let you know that whether

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you're looking for a companion through

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your paranoid insomnia entertaining

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yourself through one of life's mundane

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activities or trying to ward off the

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internal scream to all those sad

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smothered Souls around the office THC is

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here and you should know that every

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episode of the higher side chats has an

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entire second hour four plus members

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sign up at the higher side chats plus

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calm and you get years of plus show

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special invite to Greg Carl woods

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and bonus episodes for videos and 10%

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ends up in the higher side store it's

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eight dollars a month that you won't

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miss so become a plus member and treat

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yourself in these troubled times always

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action-packed and commercial for you

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which means you'll unfortunately never

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hear my voice alright people from sunny

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San Diego I'm Greg Carl wood and when we

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look at the history of our con infected

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Empire expansion it's clearly carved a

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very cold and bloody path to the place

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we are today in fact it's almost

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impossible to truly reel back its

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influence it's baggage and the

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occupation of ideas that still poison

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the mental well of humanity just look at

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something like language or even food and

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you'll see how quickly Empire comes up

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in the context of spirituality and magic

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this often means that any Westerner is

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interested in rejecting the materialist

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model or the angry dad and the clouds'

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paradigm were presented with and walking

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down the path less traveled will usually

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start with the works of Manley P Hall

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Aleister Crowley Blavatsky the Golden

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Dawn or any of the initiatory orders or

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secret societies that not only dominate

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the literature but often have too cozy

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of a relationship with the state to make

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me all that comfortable myself but

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eventually the Western blinders come off

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and we see that magic and spirituality

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are about as universal as they get and

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only because of the brutal steamroll of

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colonization have we lost that

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understanding and oftentimes the

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fractured communities in their wake as

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well and today I think many of us are

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looking back at the cultures and people

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that the power pyramid has used and

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abused and are trying to unpack their

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ways and their understandings of life

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and reality because the answers yielded

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by the all-knowing Empire are not nearly

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good enough so with this here today is

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Natalia l40 a writer storyteller

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cartomancer an advocate of the magical

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worldview from Puerto Rico who details

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her journey on her blog mist and ether

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she's pursued her education in literary

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theory and criticism with undergraduate

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studies in English

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literature she's also the author of the

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poetic Arcanum and the otherworldly

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journey with the suit of swords where

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she combines storytelling and poetry

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with the rich and deep symbolism of the

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Tarot so let's do it the Caribbean card

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oh man sir lover of literature and Devon

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Atrix extraordinaire

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Natalia welcome to THC Wow that is an

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excellent introduction hello I try I try

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and thanks for doing this it's always

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exciting when I ask someone if they'd be

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interested in being a guest and they're

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actually a listener already so that was

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nice and the real catalyst for asking

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was this piece you wrote called the

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politics of unnamed desires which we'll

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get into and it seems like it's far more

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political than your usual writings but I

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found it right at a time when I was also

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thinking about the fact that I'd love to

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have more guests from outside the

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Western bubble or at least talk to

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people more embedded and raised in the

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cultures that not only have deep

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spiritual and magical traditions but

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also have been impacted pretty

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dramatically by colonization and Puerto

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Rico seems like it checks both of those

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boxes pretty boldly and it still has a

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lot of struggle and turmoil caused by

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its odd nebulous status with the United

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States so I think you'll have a lot of

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interesting things to share with this

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I suppose this might be one of your

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first podcast appearances so maybe we

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could start with where you might have

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either have seen either of those two

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things growing up spiritualism and magic

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or the negative effects of colonization

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how do those things impact a person born

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and raised in the Caribbean oh goodness

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that is quite a question cool all right

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well I wasn't raised in Puerto Rico

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I was raised in Florida where you know

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there are many many Puerto Ricans and I

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came to Puerto Rico to study to continue

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my higher education so I transferred to

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the University of Puerto Rico so it was

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a big culture shock so just with that

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alone I was raised with not a I guess

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grounded identity you could say because

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I I wasn't a part of Florida you know

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I'm Puerto Rican

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so I lived there I was raised there but

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in part it wasn't my culture you know

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and then I came here and that was the

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case as well I found a great culture

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shock and of course I visited Puerto

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Rico you know frequently every year and

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I think I've always kept retained this

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feeling of not belonging anywhere and I

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think that what I feel in living here

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because I also you know I've moved

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around quite a bit I think there is a

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lot of and articulated especially here

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in Puerto Rico not belonging you know we

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belong to this land you know we are all

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purry can we have this shared culture so

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we belong right but I think the one of

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the one of the deepest fissures in

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colonization that happens in the

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individual is that it disconnects you

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from the land and from community and

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this is the the type of this is the

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landscape that you find here you know

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amongst people there is just a disparate

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feeling that is connection through

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culture but it's superficial called

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culture you know a lot of our culture is

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derived from the United States you know

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with with you know we've been colonized

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for more than 500 years first it was the

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Spanish then it was the US and we

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haven't that's why I titled my article

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unnamed desires because we do not even

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know how to articulate who we are where

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we fit we because we haven't even given

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you know we we don't take we don't know

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not that we don't take that you know

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there's nothing to take because what can

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we take you know we're on an island a

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small island so all that all that

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frustration is what you feel living here

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you know but there's a lot of as usual

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I'm in the States you know competition

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etc etc but there is a lot of thievery

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piracy a lot of as you know corruption

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as in the States as in many other places

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but

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here it's it just has a different

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feeling to it I don't know and I think

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it's because we don't we don't have the

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sense of place and of belonging and so

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with spiritual communities here I think

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that is one of the ways that we retain a

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sense of community you know one of it

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one of the ways because there are also

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people that you know don't belong to any

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spiritual communities but in spiritual

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communities you find relief you know

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you're able to communicate and you know

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even if even if certain things are

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unaddressed and unsaid but the living

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the daily living and the daily pulling

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through that is addressed in spiritual

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communities and I think that is why

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they're you know communities is a big

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thing here spiritual communities you

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know even the Christians and you know

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the different denominations the

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different types of communities outside

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of Christianity as well spiritism and

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also in you know Santa Tia and all the

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you know other different communities

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spiritual communities well I think that

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makes a lot of sense I mean even just to

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see something like you use the Tarot a

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lot and it seems like you're using a

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Spanish tarot deck I mean that in itself

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is like well clearly there's some major

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influence and it's gotta be a strange

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feeling of not having a ton of autonomy

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yeah because you always have this

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overarching yeah Empire yes that's the

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word I was looking for yes and even even

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just the idea of not really knowing

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where you're from or not having a

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connection with your heritage I think

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that's big for any American because you

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go back a couple hundred years and none

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of us were originally from here so

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sometimes I think about just the idea of

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okay so I'm largely Swedish and polish

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well you know how different would life

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be if you are raised in a place where

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your entire city is Swedish and polish

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with a heritage that goes back

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generations and it's kind of crazy

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and let me be clear this is not some

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voiced you know this is not something

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articulated I miss what I'm saying could

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be heard a heretical in a sense to a lot

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of people they will deny it like what is

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what are you talking about but it you

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see it every day because this complete

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disregard to the land you know here in

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Puerto Rico the highest bidder is the

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one that takes the peace you know and

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and especially if they come from outside

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you know and all all our land is is sold

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you know

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lived there whoever they have to move so

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that this high this other can purchase

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this land or this place and you see it

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here in the people as well I mean the

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the amount of trash that you find I mean

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I see it just driving people just throw

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trash out the window you know a bottle

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here you know a beer can over there and

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it's you know and this just that is a

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sign of a person that has no regard for

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the land that they walk on you know that

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they belong here that they should they

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should participate in some way other

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than than to then just let me see how

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far I can get ahead above this other

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person you know let me see how I can

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bring down today you know like that

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right the warped ways the West are

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definitely contagious we get caught up

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in the wrong incentives and all that

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yeah and I'm not surprised at someone

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who moved to Puerto Rico because they're

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Puerto Rican and was hoping to feel more

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connected has these sorts of thoughts

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about the land on their mind because it

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seems like even the native population is

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dealing with their own disconnect mm-hmm

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either conscious or unconscious these

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feelings of defeat because there's a big

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international mining corporation raping

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the land poisoning the water so an

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individual could easily feel like well

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[\h__\h] it what's the use and finding the

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trash can when this shit's going on over

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there mm-hmm I could definitely

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understand that sort of stuck feeling

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gets and just a little bit more about

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the history you sum up the story really

274
00:12:05,250 --> 00:12:03,510
well with this paragraph from that post

275
00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:05,260
where you say

276
00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:08,050
since the quote-unquote discovery of

277
00:12:12,540 --> 00:12:10,690
Puerto Rico by the Europeans the island

278
00:12:15,300 --> 00:12:12,550
quickly moved into the possession of

279
00:12:17,910 --> 00:12:15,310
Spain under which the land was mined

280
00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:17,920
into exhaustion all the gold and riches

281
00:12:22,230 --> 00:12:19,930
immediately shipped back to the

282
00:12:25,220 --> 00:12:22,240
continent the indigenous people of the

283
00:12:27,660 --> 00:12:25,230
land mixed died or went into slavery

284
00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:27,670
typical story of the Caribbean right

285
00:12:32,940 --> 00:12:30,370
Porto Rico isn't unique in this what

286
00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:32,950
this island is particularly unique in is

287
00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:35,410
that after centuries under Spanish rule

288
00:12:39,690 --> 00:12:37,810
and a mild skirmish between the Spanish

289
00:12:41,610 --> 00:12:39,700
and the British over ownership the

290
00:12:44,250 --> 00:12:41,620
United States took over after the

291
00:12:46,650 --> 00:12:44,260
spanish-american war the island passed

292
00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:46,660
now into the ownership of a new head a

293
00:12:50,730 --> 00:12:48,730
new banner and a new culture are you

294
00:12:52,680 --> 00:12:50,740
seeing a thread here speed up a couple

295
00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:52,690
hundred years and here we are still

296
00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:54,970
under the wings of the United States at

297
00:12:58,680 --> 00:12:56,770
no point in our history longer than a

298
00:13:00,420 --> 00:12:58,690
day after the Europeans stepped foot on

299
00:13:03,030 --> 00:13:00,430
the island have the people of the island

300
00:13:04,890 --> 00:13:03,040
been sovereign if you sit and think

301
00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:04,900
about that fact and about the

302
00:13:08,910 --> 00:13:07,210
repercussions this reverberates into a

303
00:13:11,430 --> 00:13:08,920
people into the land

304
00:13:14,580 --> 00:13:11,440
well it's quite something it is

305
00:13:18,870 --> 00:13:14,590
crippling and I just think that is a

306
00:13:22,290 --> 00:13:18,880
killer paragraph definitely heavy also I

307
00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:22,300
listened to those santista Brujo Lewis

308
00:13:27,330 --> 00:13:24,490
interviews that you had sent me which

309
00:13:29,790 --> 00:13:27,340
fold in the magical context within this

310
00:13:33,060 --> 00:13:29,800
unique history and he refers to Puerto

311
00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:33,070
Rico as a big magical melting pot not

312
00:13:37,260 --> 00:13:34,570
only are there are many traditions

313
00:13:39,750 --> 00:13:37,270
across the islands but Puerto Rico is

314
00:13:42,570 --> 00:13:39,760
also the first place that African slaves

315
00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:42,580
were brought to so their traditions have

316
00:13:47,270 --> 00:13:45,730
folded in and mixed as well and then of

317
00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:47,280
course you've got to add that

318
00:13:51,540 --> 00:13:49,330
Christianity current running through

319
00:13:55,590 --> 00:13:51,550
everything and it just seems like after

320
00:13:58,710 --> 00:13:55,600
all this history it's pretty safe to say

321
00:14:00,960 --> 00:13:58,720
that Puerto Rico is a fairly unique and

322
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:00,970
interesting cultural and magical

323
00:14:06,780 --> 00:14:05,410
microcosm isn't it yeah it is I mean you

324
00:14:08,310 --> 00:14:06,790
can find that in other places in the

325
00:14:11,340 --> 00:14:08,320
Caribbean and not obviously in other

326
00:14:13,890 --> 00:14:11,350
places in different countries but yeah

327
00:14:15,930 --> 00:14:13,900
something it created quite an

328
00:14:18,540 --> 00:14:15,940
interesting mix here and

329
00:14:20,460 --> 00:14:18,550
and now you have you know you have a

330
00:14:23,790 --> 00:14:20,470
spirity small you have a spirity small

331
00:14:26,340 --> 00:14:23,800
clue Sado for chloric alike different

332
00:14:28,260 --> 00:14:26,350
you know and that is those are just

333
00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:28,270
different branches of spiritism you know

334
00:14:33,750 --> 00:14:30,930
Kardashian spiritism that got you know

335
00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:33,760
absorbed into different ways of life and

336
00:14:38,250 --> 00:14:35,170
different cultures that came from other

337
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:38,260
places and they just made it their own

338
00:14:42,390 --> 00:14:40,930
you know within the community you know

339
00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:42,400
those different communities that took

340
00:14:48,570 --> 00:14:44,290
the Kardashian spiritism and made it

341
00:14:51,300 --> 00:14:48,580
their own and transformed it and in many

342
00:14:55,260 --> 00:14:51,310
ways and it's I think it's beautiful

343
00:14:57,840 --> 00:14:55,270
yeah yeah what traditions may be seemed

344
00:15:00,090 --> 00:14:57,850
the most popular and how widespread is

345
00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:00,100
magic and spiritualism down there

346
00:15:02,550 --> 00:15:01,090
because of course if you've lived in

347
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:02,560
Florida I know you also lived in Seattle

348
00:15:09,210 --> 00:15:06,370
almost non-existent yeah how far does it

349
00:15:11,940 --> 00:15:09,220
penetrate down there it's pretty deep I

350
00:15:13,950 --> 00:15:11,950
mean I know obviously it depends on the

351
00:15:16,230 --> 00:15:13,960
house I was on that on the temple and

352
00:15:19,950 --> 00:15:16,240
the different spirit its house but it is

353
00:15:22,590 --> 00:15:19,960
popular to approach spiritism and it is

354
00:15:26,190 --> 00:15:22,600
said that that is the foundation you

355
00:15:28,410 --> 00:15:26,200
know whichever other branch you want to

356
00:15:32,010 --> 00:15:28,420
follow whichever other tradition you

357
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:32,020
want to follow a spiritism provides the

358
00:15:37,890 --> 00:15:33,970
foundation with how to work with

359
00:15:40,020 --> 00:15:37,900
ancestors and how to work Glasgow SAS

360
00:15:42,060 --> 00:15:40,030
and things like that that that provide a

361
00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:42,070
foundation so if you when you move into

362
00:15:49,140 --> 00:15:44,650
another tradition you have that that

363
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:49,150
solid base that gives you the tools for

364
00:15:54,180 --> 00:15:51,850
spirit work basically for working with

365
00:15:55,860 --> 00:15:54,190
spirits and interacting with spirits and

366
00:15:57,390 --> 00:15:55,870
recognizing different types of spirits

367
00:15:59,760 --> 00:15:57,400
and things like that obviously each

368
00:16:01,560 --> 00:15:59,770
tradition has their own spirits and ways

369
00:16:03,750 --> 00:16:01,570
of recognizing I don't want to you know

370
00:16:05,610 --> 00:16:03,760
I'm not part I don't know you know each

371
00:16:08,790 --> 00:16:05,620
temple is different but I do know that

372
00:16:10,860 --> 00:16:08,800
it is popular to approach spiritism from

373
00:16:13,350 --> 00:16:10,870
that perspective that it is the

374
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:13,360
foundation so you begin there and you

375
00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:15,130
refine your you know you you hone your

376
00:16:19,710 --> 00:16:17,770
skills as a spirit worker through

377
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:19,720
spiritism and then you start you know

378
00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:22,330
evolving moving meeting other temples

379
00:16:27,270 --> 00:16:24,490
other people and from there you branch

380
00:16:31,260 --> 00:16:27,280
out and your path is made

381
00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:31,270
I guess it's the way to see it right on

382
00:16:35,310 --> 00:16:33,490
so you mentioned that you're part of a

383
00:16:37,500 --> 00:16:35,320
Spiritist house can you tell us anything

384
00:16:41,490 --> 00:16:37,510
more about yours and why you might have

385
00:16:45,630 --> 00:16:41,500
chose it over others well I don't know

386
00:16:52,130 --> 00:16:45,640
that in my case I didn't really choose

387
00:16:56,730 --> 00:16:52,140
it I just found myself going there there

388
00:17:01,980 --> 00:16:56,740
it was because I was I met this person

389
00:17:04,230 --> 00:17:01,990
through a job and I knew her and our you

390
00:17:07,530 --> 00:17:04,240
know our friendship and relationship

391
00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:07,540
grew through that job and then I met my

392
00:17:17,460 --> 00:17:12,610
partner and from there he also had a

393
00:17:20,850 --> 00:17:17,470
friendship with her and we began forming

394
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:20,860
part of her group and going to you know

395
00:17:25,650 --> 00:17:23,170
the Ciccio nests and Mises and all that

396
00:17:28,020 --> 00:17:25,660
and it just slowly evolved because we

397
00:17:29,970 --> 00:17:28,030
weren't part of it immediately we just

398
00:17:31,830 --> 00:17:29,980
went you know to the special days you

399
00:17:34,710 --> 00:17:31,840
know special celebrations for the Saints

400
00:17:37,590 --> 00:17:34,720
and things like that participated and

401
00:17:41,250 --> 00:17:37,600
but then slowly we began integrating

402
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:41,260
ourselves more and now I'm part of it so

403
00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:44,970
is it the spiritual hierarchies that

404
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:47,890
define a spiritualist house versus

405
00:17:54,090 --> 00:17:50,170
another one or is it more of the contact

406
00:17:57,870 --> 00:17:54,100
techniques or a little about mmm I don't

407
00:17:58,320 --> 00:17:57,880
know that there are hierarchies no I

408
00:18:04,740 --> 00:17:58,330
don't

409
00:18:06,330 --> 00:18:04,750
that's not no so you mean like different

410
00:18:08,820 --> 00:18:06,340
types of temples what would be the

411
00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:08,830
difference I think it's the approach so

412
00:18:16,490 --> 00:18:12,250
some temples are the approach so some

413
00:18:19,890 --> 00:18:16,500
temples are heavy in the you know kardec

414
00:18:22,590 --> 00:18:19,900
cardigan spiritism and they have a

415
00:18:26,370 --> 00:18:22,600
specific structure and how they address

416
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:26,380
it in their more temple they're more of

417
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:28,930
a temple where you go to a temple you

418
00:18:35,340 --> 00:18:31,810
know a building and other places are in

419
00:18:38,010 --> 00:18:35,350
a home in a home beside a home you know

420
00:18:40,419 --> 00:18:38,020
a structure silo beside the home and so

421
00:18:43,810 --> 00:18:40,429
they each vary in

422
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:43,820
approach and it's not by hierarchies I

423
00:18:49,269 --> 00:18:46,610
think it's more approach and I haven't I

424
00:18:52,690 --> 00:18:49,279
haven't visited that many temples either

425
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:52,700
but it's what I've noticed is from is

426
00:18:57,730 --> 00:18:55,730
the approach basically I mean they have

427
00:19:00,220 --> 00:18:57,740
the same structures you know you open

428
00:19:02,259 --> 00:19:00,230
with the prayers and all as soon as if

429
00:19:06,060 --> 00:19:02,269
kajita which is a small book with

430
00:19:12,009 --> 00:19:06,070
prayers you know you open the same way

431
00:19:17,379 --> 00:19:12,019
but some have more steps and others have

432
00:19:20,649 --> 00:19:17,389
less steps some have it's just I think

433
00:19:21,369 --> 00:19:20,659
it's more structural than anything right

434
00:19:24,700 --> 00:19:21,379
on right on

435
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:24,710
maybe hierarchy is the wrong word to use

436
00:19:28,659 --> 00:19:26,570
and pantheon would be a better one but I

437
00:19:31,690 --> 00:19:28,669
guess I'm asking about the different

438
00:19:33,970 --> 00:19:31,700
groups of spirits or types of entities

439
00:19:37,389 --> 00:19:33,980
that a spiritualist house might have a

440
00:19:39,460 --> 00:19:37,399
connection to or emphasize contacting on

441
00:19:41,769 --> 00:19:39,470
the other side because my thought is

442
00:19:44,710 --> 00:19:41,779
that a group is usually working from

443
00:19:47,259 --> 00:19:44,720
specific grimoires maybe they might

444
00:19:49,570 --> 00:19:47,269
focus on communication with the dead or

445
00:19:52,980 --> 00:19:49,580
another discipline might work with arc

446
00:19:55,749 --> 00:19:52,990
angels or planetary energies or bigger

447
00:19:57,340 --> 00:19:55,759
archetypal forces I'm sure some

448
00:20:00,310 --> 00:19:57,350
traditions brought their gods and

449
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:00,320
spirits from where they were before to

450
00:20:05,049 --> 00:20:02,690
reference Brujo Lewis again he talked

451
00:20:07,690 --> 00:20:05,059
about a kind of spirit I'd never heard

452
00:20:09,369 --> 00:20:07,700
about called Mademoiselle

453
00:20:12,509 --> 00:20:09,379
dead humans but he said that they're

454
00:20:15,850 --> 00:20:12,519
very potent powerful spirits that were

455
00:20:17,859 --> 00:20:15,860
apparently the mothers of children that

456
00:20:19,749 --> 00:20:17,869
were being shipped off into slavery

457
00:20:22,210 --> 00:20:19,759
sometimes they drowned their own

458
00:20:25,509 --> 00:20:22,220
children to save them from the horrors

459
00:20:27,789 --> 00:20:25,519
ahead it's pretty sad and heavy stuff

460
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:27,799
but the more I learn about ancestors

461
00:20:34,389 --> 00:20:31,490
spiritual traditions and spirits of a

462
00:20:36,940 --> 00:20:34,399
people or of the land it seems like a

463
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:36,950
microcosm like Puerto Rico would be

464
00:20:43,149 --> 00:20:40,610
pretty wild so these groups I'm used to

465
00:20:45,669 --> 00:20:43,159
hearing about like the Golden Dawn Enoch

466
00:20:47,919 --> 00:20:45,679
E and magic they all focus on working

467
00:20:49,450 --> 00:20:47,929
with their own spiritual forces I guess

468
00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:49,460
I would ask is there a difference

469
00:20:53,570 --> 00:20:52,369
between the spirits of different

470
00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:53,580
branches of Voodoo

471
00:20:59,600 --> 00:20:56,369
or Santeria and the spirits that your

472
00:21:01,899 --> 00:20:59,610
own house tends to work with so there

473
00:21:07,310 --> 00:21:01,909
are several things

474
00:21:12,519 --> 00:21:07,320
Mademoiselle with the court and each

475
00:21:15,470 --> 00:21:12,529
person has a court is born and has a

476
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:15,480
number of spirits typically seven

477
00:21:20,989 --> 00:21:18,330
sometimes nine and they are the spirits

478
00:21:24,489 --> 00:21:20,999
that surround you kind of like spirit

479
00:21:27,259 --> 00:21:24,499
alleys allies and so these are the court

480
00:21:31,249 --> 00:21:27,269
ancestors everyone works with ancestors

481
00:21:34,070 --> 00:21:31,259
that's that is the the core of spiritism

482
00:21:36,169 --> 00:21:34,080
you know with Missa blanca you know

483
00:21:40,099 --> 00:21:36,179
although a white altar which is you know

484
00:21:42,889 --> 00:21:40,109
the fount of water always and took a

485
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:42,899
Clea cross I'm gonna cross the prayer

486
00:21:50,060 --> 00:21:48,210
book is sometimes Goblet of water or you

487
00:21:52,369 --> 00:21:50,070
know it depends some people put

488
00:21:56,749 --> 00:21:52,379
offerings on that altar others don't but

489
00:22:00,200 --> 00:21:56,759
that is an altar where you interact with

490
00:22:02,539 --> 00:22:00,210
ancestors and you honor that but the

491
00:22:05,229 --> 00:22:02,549
cords it's not so much a hierarchy

492
00:22:09,289 --> 00:22:05,239
although there are there is a principle

493
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:09,299
spirit that you have that is the main

494
00:22:14,539 --> 00:22:12,090
one that the top one I guess is the best

495
00:22:17,060 --> 00:22:14,549
way to say it the main one that the holy

496
00:22:19,759 --> 00:22:17,070
guardian angel or that the guardian

497
00:22:21,169 --> 00:22:19,769
angel but let me not see the holy

498
00:22:23,330 --> 00:22:21,179
guardian angel I don't want to get into

499
00:22:25,070 --> 00:22:23,340
that but the guardian angel which is the

500
00:22:28,460 --> 00:22:25,080
principle spirit and then you have the

501
00:22:31,909 --> 00:22:28,470
court which is all the spirits that are

502
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:31,919
your allies you know they bring

503
00:22:35,950 --> 00:22:33,570
different things into the mix and they

504
00:22:40,580 --> 00:22:35,960
contribute to different things into your

505
00:22:43,580 --> 00:22:40,590
Quadro who you are what your vision is

506
00:22:45,710 --> 00:22:43,590
in life what you do in life and how you

507
00:22:50,060 --> 00:22:45,720
move forward and elevation there are

508
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:50,070
many many layers to this when you

509
00:22:57,019 --> 00:22:53,369
typically go to Misa there you were

510
00:22:59,299 --> 00:22:57,029
class cow sauce which is I guess the the

511
00:23:02,210 --> 00:22:59,309
direct translation is causes but it's

512
00:23:05,299 --> 00:23:02,220
not a cause it's more you address issue

513
00:23:06,890 --> 00:23:05,309
sometimes it's students with different

514
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:06,900
types of spirits I you

515
00:23:13,700 --> 00:23:10,170
consider this however problematic lower

516
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:13,710
level spirits and you elevate them it

517
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:16,050
goes by each individual that's what you

518
00:23:20,980 --> 00:23:19,050
work in in these mises and sometimes you

519
00:23:24,650 --> 00:23:20,990
know you also address things in the

520
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:24,660
issues with the spirit and the courts in

521
00:23:28,820 --> 00:23:26,970
the courts of each individual so things

522
00:23:32,330 --> 00:23:28,830
like that it's more like you know they

523
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:32,340
going to I don't know a doctor you know

524
00:23:37,010 --> 00:23:35,250
you address spiritual issues seen her

525
00:23:39,260 --> 00:23:37,020
spiritual things that need addressing

526
00:23:41,450 --> 00:23:39,270
you know sometimes you know someone

527
00:23:43,490 --> 00:23:41,460
through you the evil eye and you have

528
00:23:45,830 --> 00:23:43,500
things going on bad luck in your life

529
00:23:49,070 --> 00:23:45,840
and so it it's addressed in these

530
00:23:50,900 --> 00:23:49,080
sessions but hierarchy yeah there is a

531
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:50,910
type of hierarchy and spirit to work

532
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:53,490
with there's on say you know that's

533
00:23:58,970 --> 00:23:55,250
outside my bounds I don't know you know

534
00:24:01,640 --> 00:23:58,980
but there are different types of spirits

535
00:24:03,740 --> 00:24:01,650
there's been Theon Devi Sione's which

536
00:24:07,190 --> 00:24:03,750
has the mysteries the twenty-one

537
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:07,200
mysteries and there are different types

538
00:24:12,380 --> 00:24:09,810
of spirits in general as far as

539
00:24:14,270 --> 00:24:12,390
spiritism goes there's the Quadro

540
00:24:15,890 --> 00:24:14,280
there's the ancestor altar and they're

541
00:24:17,450 --> 00:24:15,900
you know they're separate typically you

542
00:24:19,220 --> 00:24:17,460
know the Mesa Blanca where you work with

543
00:24:22,130 --> 00:24:19,230
ancestors and then the Quadra which is

544
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:22,140
your Saints your allies and you some

545
00:24:26,930 --> 00:24:24,090
people don't have altars to them others

546
00:24:30,620 --> 00:24:26,940
typically do and you know they take on

547
00:24:34,370 --> 00:24:30,630
the face of saints different type of

548
00:24:35,740 --> 00:24:34,380
spirits indigenous spirits and yeah

549
00:24:38,930 --> 00:24:35,750
madam oz

550
00:24:40,820 --> 00:24:38,940
right on so I mean the courts idea is

551
00:24:42,950 --> 00:24:40,830
pretty interesting I've obviously heard

552
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:42,960
of spirit allies but how does one

553
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:46,170
determine their court or what court

554
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:47,730
they're connected to do you go to an

555
00:24:55,700 --> 00:24:53,250
expert who tells you typically yes so it

556
00:24:58,970 --> 00:24:55,710
requires a specific type of Mesa to

557
00:25:01,460 --> 00:24:58,980
investigate your court but if you belong

558
00:25:04,070 --> 00:25:01,470
to a spiritual house then slowly by

559
00:25:06,020 --> 00:25:04,080
little slowly little by little you start

560
00:25:09,050 --> 00:25:06,030
knowing you know the more you interact

561
00:25:13,670 --> 00:25:09,060
the more you get you know you you learn

562
00:25:17,780 --> 00:25:13,680
about spirits and interact with your own

563
00:25:20,750 --> 00:25:17,790
spirits and learn and grow then you kind

564
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:20,760
of start knowing who they are

565
00:25:25,010 --> 00:25:23,010
then it's always good to get you know if

566
00:25:27,590 --> 00:25:25,020
one is interested so if you belong to a

567
00:25:30,350 --> 00:25:27,600
scourge Spiritist house then you would

568
00:25:33,070 --> 00:25:30,360
get by your godmother or Godfather you

569
00:25:36,770 --> 00:25:33,080
would get the investigation which they

570
00:25:39,500 --> 00:25:36,780
look into who your court is specifically

571
00:25:42,140 --> 00:25:39,510
mm-hm and a Mesa is basically like a

572
00:25:43,700 --> 00:25:42,150
magical session I guess I would I would

573
00:25:45,770 --> 00:25:43,710
say yeah

574
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:45,780
Ruhal Louise kind of breaks it down as

575
00:25:50,150 --> 00:25:47,970
three different stages you open with a

576
00:25:53,300 --> 00:25:50,160
prayer then you do some like kind of

577
00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:53,310
cleaning you use some waters to purify

578
00:25:56,950 --> 00:25:54,960
to clean and then that's when the real

579
00:26:00,230 --> 00:25:56,960
work begins but he describes some pretty

580
00:26:03,710 --> 00:26:00,240
intense stuff I mean really intense

581
00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:03,720
channeling mounting of the medium I mean

582
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:05,370
it seems pretty wild and I think a lot

583
00:26:10,130 --> 00:26:07,530
of times American culture just kind of

584
00:26:13,850 --> 00:26:10,140
it hurts the potency of magic because it

585
00:26:15,740 --> 00:26:13,860
is so loud and bright and from what the

586
00:26:17,420 --> 00:26:15,750
interviews I've had it seems like

587
00:26:19,510 --> 00:26:17,430
spirits are pretty sensitive to certain

588
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:19,520
things and you really do need quiet

589
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:23,610
stillness isolation to a degree I mean

590
00:26:27,980 --> 00:26:25,050
they're trying to penetrate a realm that

591
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:27,990
necessarily isn't really theirs or we're

592
00:26:32,150 --> 00:26:30,330
trying to penetrate there so it's hard

593
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:32,160
to really get a strong connection and

594
00:26:37,460 --> 00:26:34,530
with a lot of distractions around but

595
00:26:39,190 --> 00:26:37,470
the stuff he describes is pretty Wow I

596
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:39,200
mean have you seen any particularly

597
00:26:47,810 --> 00:26:45,090
potent spirit contacts yes indeed yes

598
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:47,820
and you'd be surprised I mean yes it's

599
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:51,450
very some spirits with everything you

600
00:26:56,150 --> 00:26:53,850
know no there-there are different

601
00:26:57,830 --> 00:26:56,160
different spirits different people

602
00:26:59,510 --> 00:26:57,840
different animals different there's

603
00:27:01,430 --> 00:26:59,520
differences everywhere you know there's

604
00:27:05,330 --> 00:27:01,440
different types of things in this world

605
00:27:07,070 --> 00:27:05,340
I like to say um in Spanish I did

606
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:07,080
although a loving the other Senor which

607
00:27:12,410 --> 00:27:10,290
is a Bible verse I believe or a saying

608
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:12,420
which basically means there there's

609
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:16,290
everything in the in the in everything

610
00:27:22,610 --> 00:27:19,010
there's every type of everything

611
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:22,620
everything is I guess you can see so

612
00:27:27,470 --> 00:27:25,410
you'd be surprised because these some of

613
00:27:30,410 --> 00:27:27,480
these especially the when there's a

614
00:27:33,410 --> 00:27:30,420
special missus held or special

615
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:33,420
festivities held it gets pretty loud and

616
00:27:36,410 --> 00:27:34,530
there's no

617
00:27:38,990 --> 00:27:36,420
you know and in you know with the music

618
00:27:41,300 --> 00:27:39,000
there's music and there's still you know

619
00:27:43,700 --> 00:27:41,310
people that that mount spirit so it's

620
00:27:46,220 --> 00:27:43,710
not you know it just there's different

621
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:46,230
types of spirits but there is when you

622
00:27:52,340 --> 00:27:49,890
go to a Mesa tends to be a small group

623
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:52,350
although you know in the templos they

624
00:27:59,150 --> 00:27:56,010
are larger there is an order and so the

625
00:28:04,490 --> 00:27:59,160
head medium was the one that oversees

626
00:28:06,410 --> 00:28:04,500
the whole the whole la mesa but there is

627
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:06,420
quiet that's why you begin with prayers

628
00:28:14,030 --> 00:28:09,810
and one should you know the ideally one

629
00:28:15,530 --> 00:28:14,040
should be in a state of meditation I

630
00:28:17,090 --> 00:28:15,540
mean you don't go full meditation you

631
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:17,100
have to be aware of what's going on but

632
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:19,530
you know what of attention is the best

633
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:21,330
word one should be in a state of

634
00:28:26,750 --> 00:28:24,210
attention to be aware etcetera and quiet

635
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:26,760
but that's not always the case you know

636
00:28:34,670 --> 00:28:32,010
sometimes you know it gets loud and you

637
00:28:37,220 --> 00:28:34,680
know spirits do still show up and

638
00:28:38,660 --> 00:28:37,230
especially if spirits show up you know

639
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:38,670
the getting loud possibility is

640
00:28:46,100 --> 00:28:42,810
definitely a thing yeah so it's not you

641
00:28:47,810 --> 00:28:46,110
know it's not it's not set in stone it's

642
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:47,820
not one thing or the other you know

643
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:51,090
right right and I know it's also usually

644
00:28:57,230 --> 00:28:54,210
a pretty personal or private type

645
00:28:59,240 --> 00:28:57,240
situation but in terms of mounting

646
00:29:02,770 --> 00:28:59,250
spirits or just spirit contact I'm

647
00:29:06,140 --> 00:29:02,780
always really interested in trying to

648
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:06,150
solidify like what their personalities

649
00:29:10,820 --> 00:29:09,330
are like or what kind of messages come

650
00:29:12,350 --> 00:29:10,830
from these entities because I haven't

651
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:12,360
had a lot of personal experience I

652
00:29:16,370 --> 00:29:14,130
really just get stories from people who

653
00:29:19,370 --> 00:29:16,380
are more embedded in that environment

654
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:19,380
and I guess is are there any kind of

655
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:21,810
messages that you've seen or maybe

656
00:29:26,810 --> 00:29:24,570
intense mountains where you've felt like

657
00:29:28,130 --> 00:29:26,820
you were in you're talking to a spirit

658
00:29:30,050 --> 00:29:28,140
directly because of course the

659
00:29:32,570 --> 00:29:30,060
personality of the person gets kind of

660
00:29:34,870 --> 00:29:32,580
out of the way these things are vague to

661
00:29:37,010 --> 00:29:34,880
a lot of people who haven't point-blank

662
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:37,020
experienced spirit communication have

663
00:29:41,660 --> 00:29:38,850
you ever gotten any any messages or

664
00:29:45,169 --> 00:29:41,670
seeing messages come out in a group that

665
00:29:47,340 --> 00:29:45,179
we're interesting yeah no of course I

666
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:47,350
mean that's that's the whole that's

667
00:29:50,940 --> 00:29:49,450
one of the major points of having a

668
00:29:53,610 --> 00:29:50,950
spirit mount or having that type of

669
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:53,620
interaction is for the message you know

670
00:29:58,650 --> 00:29:55,330
the spirit mounts is to bring a message

671
00:30:00,930 --> 00:29:58,660
sometimes mediums pass like outside you

672
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:00,940
know the lower-level spirit they pass

673
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:03,250
them through their body you know and

674
00:30:08,430 --> 00:30:06,010
they give them resolution and so yeah

675
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:08,440
this there's always a message there's

676
00:30:14,580 --> 00:30:10,690
always a message there's always you know

677
00:30:17,010 --> 00:30:14,590
a conversation I guess you know so what

678
00:30:19,170 --> 00:30:17,020
kind of feel do you get from the

679
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:19,180
messages that the spirits think are so

680
00:30:25,290 --> 00:30:22,810
important are they sometimes dark and

681
00:30:27,210 --> 00:30:25,300
menacing and grandiose are they

682
00:30:30,210 --> 00:30:27,220
personally directed to people in the

683
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:30,220
room are they more like what you hear

684
00:30:34,530 --> 00:30:32,410
from et contactees that we need to

685
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:34,540
change our ways and be stewards of the

686
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:37,090
land I know they're all different but

687
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:39,370
are there certain themes in these

688
00:30:44,610 --> 00:30:41,770
messages that maybe come out more than

689
00:30:47,850 --> 00:30:44,620
others no it's it's typically practical

690
00:30:52,170 --> 00:30:47,860
if it's a lower level spirit mikasa that

691
00:30:57,420 --> 00:30:52,180
is being lifted from a person and the

692
00:31:02,250 --> 00:30:57,430
medium is mounted or this person etc it

693
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:02,260
gets dark you know it gets dark in a

694
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:05,890
sense that what they're saying is is you

695
00:31:14,250 --> 00:31:09,810
know sometimes violent so definitely

696
00:31:17,940 --> 00:31:14,260
just violent yeah unwelcome but when it

697
00:31:21,420 --> 00:31:17,950
is a spirit an ancestor from the Quadro

698
00:31:25,260 --> 00:31:21,430
or higher you know a higher level spirit

699
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:25,270
they come with a message for sometimes

700
00:31:30,330 --> 00:31:27,610
the group typically the group or let me

701
00:31:33,750 --> 00:31:30,340
say sometimes a group or an individual

702
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:33,760
or two individuals and it's typically

703
00:31:41,790 --> 00:31:37,690
practical you know it's it's practical

704
00:31:44,340 --> 00:31:41,800
like pointing at things that need to be

705
00:31:47,670 --> 00:31:44,350
looked at and addressed in a person's

706
00:31:49,530 --> 00:31:47,680
life or spiritual life that needs work

707
00:31:51,690 --> 00:31:49,540
and that need attention so it's it's

708
00:31:54,150 --> 00:31:51,700
definitely typically practical and there

709
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:54,160
is evidence yeah maybe the NCI is where

710
00:31:59,480 --> 00:31:56,530
it is confirmed through another or

711
00:32:02,389 --> 00:31:59,490
through you know so there is

712
00:32:05,180 --> 00:32:02,399
yeah there is confirmation there's in

713
00:32:09,230 --> 00:32:05,190
that sense with Vince for interaction

714
00:32:11,180 --> 00:32:09,240
mm-hmm right on so to get into Tarot a

715
00:32:12,889 --> 00:32:11,190
bit obviously we've talked about on the

716
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:12,899
show before a lot of listeners are

717
00:32:17,570 --> 00:32:15,210
familiar with the basics but why does

718
00:32:19,460 --> 00:32:17,580
Tarot resonate so strongly with you and

719
00:32:22,100 --> 00:32:19,470
how do you understand the mechanisms

720
00:32:27,380 --> 00:32:22,110
behind why it does seem to yield some

721
00:32:32,180 --> 00:32:27,390
truly meaningful insights okay so this

722
00:32:34,580 --> 00:32:32,190
is a little aside from spirituality but

723
00:32:37,430 --> 00:32:34,590
I do bring it in and involve it in

724
00:32:40,460 --> 00:32:37,440
spirituality so Tarot for me is a

725
00:32:45,350 --> 00:32:40,470
language clean and simple it is a

726
00:32:48,490 --> 00:32:45,360
language visual language that so when

727
00:32:52,990 --> 00:32:48,500
you look at the cards you ask a question

728
00:32:56,870 --> 00:32:53,000
typically it is a practical question and

729
00:32:59,659 --> 00:32:56,880
these images are arise and I think the

730
00:33:02,240 --> 00:32:59,669
beauty of Tarot is when the person

731
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:02,250
reading the cards is able to see the

732
00:33:11,810 --> 00:33:06,690
answer you know in a way that not you

733
00:33:15,350 --> 00:33:11,820
know in a very precise way you know in a

734
00:33:18,169 --> 00:33:15,360
way that helps you recontextualize your

735
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:18,179
question and obviously you always answer

736
00:33:22,070 --> 00:33:20,010
your question because the tarot reading

737
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:22,080
for me always starts with a question but

738
00:33:26,750 --> 00:33:24,090
the beauty of Tarot is that since it is

739
00:33:29,180 --> 00:33:26,760
a language another type of language of

740
00:33:30,889 --> 00:33:29,190
visual language a language of forms then

741
00:33:34,549 --> 00:33:30,899
it is a way to step outside of your

742
00:33:38,210 --> 00:33:34,559
normal language words and you see the

743
00:33:41,690 --> 00:33:38,220
visual and you see things often you know

744
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:41,700
it you answer the reader answers the

745
00:33:49,310 --> 00:33:45,570
question in seeing things that they

746
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:49,320
might have not seen or noticed or been

747
00:33:57,769 --> 00:33:53,730
aware of that's I guess the initial what

748
00:34:01,430 --> 00:33:57,779
I feel Tarot is at base level it is a

749
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:01,440
visual language of forms and the form

750
00:34:06,710 --> 00:34:03,570
can take on many things that's why I

751
00:34:11,389 --> 00:34:06,720
really like the Marseilles or even

752
00:34:12,870 --> 00:34:11,399
playing cards because it is it's so

753
00:34:16,710 --> 00:34:12,880
malleable

754
00:34:19,770 --> 00:34:16,720
you know you can take these these sticks

755
00:34:21,390 --> 00:34:19,780
for example batons or these swords and

756
00:34:24,750 --> 00:34:21,400
they can in the one you see them

757
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:24,760
progress I also don't I don't read one

758
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:26,410
single card you see them progress

759
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:28,330
because for me since it is a language

760
00:34:33,510 --> 00:34:29,890
you have to see how it moves from card

761
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:33,520
to card you know and and so when you see

762
00:34:39,180 --> 00:34:36,970
it transform into another image and

763
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:39,190
another image I don't know there's a

764
00:34:43,740 --> 00:34:41,530
political or lyrical beauty to that and

765
00:34:49,020 --> 00:34:43,750
when you use it to answer questions I

766
00:34:52,140 --> 00:34:49,030
mean it the insight is is cuts you know

767
00:34:54,330 --> 00:34:52,150
really deep mm-hmm and I think that's

768
00:34:56,490 --> 00:34:54,340
good about you know reading more than

769
00:34:59,010 --> 00:34:56,500
one card I mean if it is a language it's

770
00:35:01,830 --> 00:34:59,020
better to communicate in sentences than

771
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:01,840
single words yeah Anna because you have

772
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:04,330
a pretty robust education in literature

773
00:35:08,490 --> 00:35:06,130
and an interest in the east of tarik I'm

774
00:35:11,010 --> 00:35:08,500
curious to hear your thoughts on like

775
00:35:13,590 --> 00:35:11,020
archetypes and narrative and how deeply

776
00:35:14,850 --> 00:35:13,600
they might be entangled with our lives

777
00:35:17,430 --> 00:35:14,860
and reality because I've heard people

778
00:35:19,910 --> 00:35:17,440
say that the universe runs on narrative

779
00:35:24,180 --> 00:35:19,920
and archetype do you feel the same way

780
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:24,190
yes I do I do and I and it's because for

781
00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:27,330
me the universe the way I see it is

782
00:35:32,790 --> 00:35:30,250
lyrical the universe is is in constant

783
00:35:34,980 --> 00:35:32,800
conversation and I want to say universe

784
00:35:39,750 --> 00:35:34,990
and you know some far-off abstract way

785
00:35:42,150 --> 00:35:39,760
but life you know all these beings and

786
00:35:44,370 --> 00:35:42,160
spirits and you know everything that

787
00:35:46,140 --> 00:35:44,380
we're interacting every day with our

788
00:35:48,300 --> 00:35:46,150
bodies are interacting with our bodies

789
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:48,310
are living in this you know temporally

790
00:35:55,290 --> 00:35:52,410
here and and there's a constant

791
00:35:58,740 --> 00:35:55,300
conversation going on you know that is

792
00:36:00,570 --> 00:35:58,750
very lyrical and often the way I see

793
00:36:03,990 --> 00:36:00,580
archetypes and I haven't really studied

794
00:36:08,220 --> 00:36:04,000
a lot of you what I know of Ewing is

795
00:36:11,670 --> 00:36:08,230
what Gordon White has talked about but

796
00:36:14,220 --> 00:36:11,680
for me archetypes is that language that

797
00:36:17,610 --> 00:36:14,230
lyricism is just another word for this

798
00:36:22,500 --> 00:36:17,620
this upwelling this this discourse that

799
00:36:23,940 --> 00:36:22,510
we catch and the way that's why I and at

800
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:23,950
one point in my blog I would I would

801
00:36:26,579 --> 00:36:25,810
always emphasize paying attention being

802
00:36:29,009 --> 00:36:26,589
aware

803
00:36:32,940 --> 00:36:29,019
but it it's because of this you know

804
00:36:35,690 --> 00:36:32,950
when you live more aware when you pay

805
00:36:38,759 --> 00:36:35,700
attention instead of you know and some

806
00:36:41,819 --> 00:36:38,769
abstract things and all these souls and

807
00:36:43,349 --> 00:36:41,829
you know and all these you know and in

808
00:36:46,049 --> 00:36:43,359
the case of Tarot you know all these

809
00:36:48,420 --> 00:36:46,059
meanings and significations that someone

810
00:36:50,309 --> 00:36:48,430
said and someone says and another said I

811
00:36:53,099 --> 00:36:50,319
don't know this would you just pay

812
00:36:56,339 --> 00:36:53,109
attention you see that it is all just

813
00:36:57,859 --> 00:36:56,349
there you know and that that you don't

814
00:37:01,140 --> 00:36:57,869
need to come up with these

815
00:37:03,569 --> 00:37:01,150
significations and all this added

816
00:37:06,870 --> 00:37:03,579
baggage it's just there just read just

817
00:37:08,069 --> 00:37:06,880
read the language read the images read

818
00:37:10,620 --> 00:37:08,079
the forms that are in constant

819
00:37:14,190 --> 00:37:10,630
conversation and in constant interaction

820
00:37:17,579 --> 00:37:14,200
and tension and that's that's that's for

821
00:37:19,950 --> 00:37:17,589
me what archetype it is the upwelling of

822
00:37:24,180 --> 00:37:19,960
that and that's why Tarot I think it is

823
00:37:27,509 --> 00:37:24,190
enduring it is a pack of cards that they

824
00:37:31,499 --> 00:37:27,519
converse through through image they're

825
00:37:36,479 --> 00:37:31,509
very nicely packed in 78 you know 78

826
00:37:40,099 --> 00:37:36,489
cards and it's just it's it's it's a

827
00:37:43,769 --> 00:37:40,109
useful tool a useful interface for that

828
00:37:46,049 --> 00:37:43,779
and so to get a little more into that

829
00:37:48,930 --> 00:37:46,059
post that I liked so much the politics

830
00:37:51,479 --> 00:37:48,940
of unnamed desires the post was largely

831
00:37:53,459 --> 00:37:51,489
about recent protests in Puerto Rico and

832
00:37:55,979 --> 00:37:53,469
you say around half a million people

833
00:37:57,779 --> 00:37:55,989
congealed to dethrone the governor for a

834
00:37:59,700 --> 00:37:57,789
level of blatant corruption and

835
00:38:01,789 --> 00:37:59,710
disregard for the people of the island

836
00:38:04,469 --> 00:38:01,799
and I'm sure we're all familiar with

837
00:38:07,279 --> 00:38:04,479
puppet leaders who just serve the larger

838
00:38:09,359 --> 00:38:07,289
Empire or people in power who are very

839
00:38:12,989 --> 00:38:09,369
disrespectful to the people they're

840
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:12,999
supposed to be nurturing but what can

841
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:15,130
you tell us about maybe those protests

842
00:38:19,459 --> 00:38:16,930
for a lot of Americans who probably

843
00:38:22,229 --> 00:38:19,469
weren't even aware half a million people

844
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:22,239
congealed to dethrone a governor what

845
00:38:26,130 --> 00:38:24,130
were those protests about and has there

846
00:38:27,900 --> 00:38:26,140
been any real resolution now since it

847
00:38:30,569 --> 00:38:27,910
has been a bit of time since you wrote

848
00:38:32,370 --> 00:38:30,579
mm-hmm yeah yeah I did consider writing

849
00:38:36,959 --> 00:38:32,380
a follow-up post but I left it

850
00:38:39,370 --> 00:38:36,969
unfinished so what happened is that well

851
00:38:42,279 --> 00:38:39,380
there was already a lot of

852
00:38:45,460 --> 00:38:42,289
sure with her governor you know he was

853
00:38:48,390 --> 00:38:45,470
incompetent he is pointing people in his

854
00:38:51,069 --> 00:38:48,400
cabinet and in and that were just

855
00:38:53,700 --> 00:38:51,079
stealing from the community from the

856
00:38:56,529 --> 00:38:53,710
general people of the island and you

857
00:38:59,410 --> 00:38:56,539
know many schools have been closing for

858
00:39:03,099 --> 00:38:59,420
years you know public schools so there

859
00:39:06,130 --> 00:39:03,109
was just a lot of discontent a lot of

860
00:39:07,930 --> 00:39:06,140
people were unhappy but it's nothing new

861
00:39:10,749 --> 00:39:07,940
you know with every new governor people

862
00:39:13,269 --> 00:39:10,759
aren't happy you know it's but in this

863
00:39:16,930 --> 00:39:13,279
one it was that Chad

864
00:39:19,569 --> 00:39:16,940
it was the chat that was published by

865
00:39:22,569 --> 00:39:19,579
and well he had one of our newspapers

866
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:22,579
and it was a very obscene chat that

867
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:24,170
private chat obviously between the

868
00:39:30,130 --> 00:39:26,450
governor and some of his buddies in

869
00:39:33,490 --> 00:39:30,140
power it was very disrespectful to the

870
00:39:36,130 --> 00:39:33,500
communities LGBTQ communities

871
00:39:38,769 --> 00:39:36,140
communities of different mobilities you

872
00:39:42,249 --> 00:39:38,779
know the dead that were that went on

873
00:39:44,140 --> 00:39:42,259
buried and unfollowed up with after the

874
00:39:46,749 --> 00:39:44,150
hurricane and it was just very

875
00:39:49,829 --> 00:39:46,759
disgusting many people they obviously

876
00:39:54,779 --> 00:39:49,839
many people read it and they were

877
00:39:59,499 --> 00:39:54,789
scandalized by by the blatant disregard

878
00:40:00,850 --> 00:39:59,509
from those in power and I just think you

879
00:40:03,100 --> 00:40:00,860
know

880
00:40:05,620 --> 00:40:03,110
it's always been the case just they just

881
00:40:08,110 --> 00:40:05,630
now saw it in print they just now could

882
00:40:11,650 --> 00:40:08,120
not avoid recognizing it you know

883
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:11,660
many groups mobilized through social

884
00:40:17,410 --> 00:40:14,930
media and locally and the protests

885
00:40:19,330 --> 00:40:17,420
happened so many protests many protests

886
00:40:22,330 --> 00:40:19,340
happen not just the one that I spoke of

887
00:40:26,170 --> 00:40:22,340
many many did there were protests in the

888
00:40:29,020 --> 00:40:26,180
in Old San Juan in Fortaleza which is

889
00:40:32,670 --> 00:40:29,030
where the governor lives and it was went

890
00:40:35,140 --> 00:40:32,680
on for quite a few days yeah mm-hmm and

891
00:40:39,570 --> 00:40:35,150
obviously the other component to that

892
00:40:42,970 --> 00:40:39,580
post is your insights from taro and I

893
00:40:45,790 --> 00:40:42,980
guess I'm curious how that maybe helped

894
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:45,800
you get a deeper understanding of what

895
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:47,330
was going on there of course I read the

896
00:40:52,390 --> 00:40:49,130
post but for people who are maybe trying

897
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:52,400
to understand how the taro can get you a

898
00:40:56,530 --> 00:40:54,770
deeper understanding of something that's

899
00:40:58,270 --> 00:40:56,540
kind of abstract it isn't such a

900
00:41:00,070 --> 00:40:58,280
personal thing like where am I going to

901
00:41:03,370 --> 00:41:00,080
find love or what's my next job

902
00:41:06,460 --> 00:41:03,380
what kind of insights did the taro yield

903
00:41:08,620 --> 00:41:06,470
for you in terms of trying to maybe get

904
00:41:10,870 --> 00:41:08,630
a better grip on the depth of this

905
00:41:14,770 --> 00:41:10,880
discontent and the reason for the

906
00:41:17,740 --> 00:41:14,780
protests so I I read tarot for context

907
00:41:20,770 --> 00:41:17,750
when I read tarot and the questions I

908
00:41:22,930 --> 00:41:20,780
when I myself go to the cards or where

909
00:41:25,750 --> 00:41:22,940
someone else comes to me that's why I

910
00:41:30,150 --> 00:41:25,760
emphasized the question I look at

911
00:41:34,540 --> 00:41:30,160
context for me Tarot is is the perfect

912
00:41:38,380 --> 00:41:34,550
what is it the lens for for context so

913
00:41:40,390 --> 00:41:38,390
you want to see you know I don't I don't

914
00:41:44,500 --> 00:41:40,400
want to talk about I don't want to look

915
00:41:47,740 --> 00:41:44,510
at you know how my self and my identity

916
00:41:50,890 --> 00:41:47,750
and all these things are moving and it's

917
00:41:52,690 --> 00:41:50,900
always good yeah but it's not that's not

918
00:41:54,630 --> 00:41:52,700
important because identity is such a

919
00:41:57,340 --> 00:41:54,640
malleable thing and it's always you know

920
00:41:59,980 --> 00:41:57,350
transforming and interacting with the

921
00:42:03,880 --> 00:41:59,990
greater you know with what is

922
00:42:06,610 --> 00:42:03,890
experiential in the landscape etc so I I

923
00:42:09,990 --> 00:42:06,620
read tarot for context so I look at what

924
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:10,000
the context of what's going on beyond

925
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:14,130
what is seen superficially you know

926
00:42:20,749 --> 00:42:17,450
and so when I when I read the cards

927
00:42:23,839 --> 00:42:20,759
that's what I wanted to look at I wanted

928
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:23,849
to look at what is really going on

929
00:42:27,559 --> 00:42:25,410
you know what is what is really

930
00:42:30,829 --> 00:42:27,569
happening and what is going to happen

931
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:30,839
you know is it just is this just all for

932
00:42:40,729 --> 00:42:35,210
show or is this you know is there really

933
00:42:42,739 --> 00:42:40,739
potential for change here or not and so

934
00:42:45,380 --> 00:42:42,749
that's why that's why I read the card

935
00:42:48,109 --> 00:42:45,390
and it was useful I mean I don't want to

936
00:42:51,620 --> 00:42:48,119
disparage the protest I don't remember

937
00:42:53,749 --> 00:42:51,630
any people I don't want to disparage the

938
00:42:55,849 --> 00:42:53,759
protest because it helps it helped

939
00:42:59,690 --> 00:42:55,859
solidify a people you know and help

940
00:43:01,430 --> 00:42:59,700
people see you know the people that are

941
00:43:02,390 --> 00:43:01,440
that live in this island and also

942
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:02,400
outside because there were a lot of

943
00:43:07,849 --> 00:43:03,930
people that traveled into the island to

944
00:43:09,589 --> 00:43:07,859
participate that you know that we can do

945
00:43:11,930 --> 00:43:09,599
something that we can get together that

946
00:43:14,809 --> 00:43:11,940
we can mobilize so it is important you

947
00:43:16,099 --> 00:43:14,819
know it is it is a good thing you know

948
00:43:18,370 --> 00:43:16,109
there are good things that came out of

949
00:43:20,900 --> 00:43:18,380
it I don't know there should be more

950
00:43:27,049 --> 00:43:20,910
mm-hmm for me there should be more and

951
00:43:28,729 --> 00:43:27,059
so what the cards indicated is that you

952
00:43:31,339 --> 00:43:28,739
know this is just another step in the

953
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:31,349
process and and now and now let's things

954
00:43:38,359 --> 00:43:33,930
stand really there's someone else that

955
00:43:42,709 --> 00:43:38,369
came into a lady she was a secretary of

956
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:42,719
justice she just took up the you know

957
00:43:51,790 --> 00:43:44,729
the the seat of power I guess you could

958
00:43:55,870 --> 00:43:51,800
say mmm but now you know now you have

959
00:43:58,090 --> 00:43:55,880
just another person there another person

960
00:43:59,590 --> 00:43:58,100
there and things continue and I there I

961
00:44:03,250 --> 00:43:59,600
know there's and I noticed that when I

962
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:03,260
read the newspaper that there is an

963
00:44:07,300 --> 00:44:05,930
emphasis and look word you know this is

964
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:07,310
what she's doing this is what her

965
00:44:11,170 --> 00:44:09,050
cabinet is doing look at all these

966
00:44:13,900 --> 00:44:11,180
changes but really what's coming to

967
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:13,910
light is that there is a lot of steps

968
00:44:21,430 --> 00:44:17,410
procedures bureaucracy in place that

969
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:21,440
incapacitates the people mm-hmm and so

970
00:44:25,300 --> 00:44:22,970
now we're you know we're in the process

971
00:44:27,340 --> 00:44:25,310
she's in the process so the government

972
00:44:29,740 --> 00:44:27,350
is in the process of getting more

973
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:29,750
federal money having that federal money

974
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:32,570
go to the places that need it but now

975
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:36,290
the different municipalities and the

976
00:44:40,630 --> 00:44:38,930
mayors of the municipalities are saying

977
00:44:42,370 --> 00:44:40,640
that the money isn't reaching them so

978
00:44:46,270 --> 00:44:42,380
they're not able to fix the roads and

979
00:44:50,530 --> 00:44:46,280
the homes etc and so it's just a big web

980
00:44:54,190 --> 00:44:50,540
in place that makes it really hard to

981
00:44:58,060 --> 00:44:54,200
addressed address issues that we have as

982
00:44:59,970 --> 00:44:58,070
an island you know poverty in and and

983
00:45:01,240 --> 00:44:59,980
things that need to be fixed

984
00:45:03,130 --> 00:45:01,250
[Music]

985
00:45:05,170 --> 00:45:03,140
I'm sure you know the phrase that people

986
00:45:06,970 --> 00:45:05,180
use here well obviously the machine is

987
00:45:08,859 --> 00:45:06,980
bigger than any one person but the

988
00:45:10,900 --> 00:45:08,869
phrase you always hear is hey meet the

989
00:45:12,940 --> 00:45:10,910
new boss same as the old boss

990
00:45:15,490 --> 00:45:12,950
yeah basically that's how it feels like

991
00:45:19,359 --> 00:45:15,500
for me I mean you know politics here is

992
00:45:22,839 --> 00:45:19,369
such a Paulo make you know it's such a

993
00:45:25,569 --> 00:45:22,849
volatile thing that some people you know

994
00:45:30,220 --> 00:45:25,579
for them something is happening in my

995
00:45:32,170 --> 00:45:30,230
opinion no no it's just just continue it

996
00:45:34,270 --> 00:45:32,180
as normal and now that we're talking

997
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:34,280
about parceling out different you know

998
00:45:39,130 --> 00:45:36,770
restructuring the land no planification

999
00:45:41,380 --> 00:45:39,140
committee that way make it more

1000
00:45:44,890 --> 00:45:41,390
accessible for outside companies to buy

1001
00:45:46,599 --> 00:45:44,900
land and make you know paradise here for

1002
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:46,609
you know hotels and things like that so

1003
00:45:51,370 --> 00:45:47,930
you know that's the things that that

1004
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:51,380
bother me you know if i'm really frank

1005
00:45:57,300 --> 00:45:54,770
and this is you know this is probably

1006
00:46:01,859 --> 00:45:57,310
not welcome sentiments or acknowledged

1007
00:46:05,380 --> 00:46:01,869
if i'm really frank i think all that is

1008
00:46:07,490 --> 00:46:05,390
useless you know i think i think all of

1009
00:46:12,230 --> 00:46:07,500
these

1010
00:46:14,720 --> 00:46:12,240
attempts at making a better place you

1011
00:46:17,570 --> 00:46:14,730
know in government wise and putting all

1012
00:46:20,030 --> 00:46:17,580
these steps into place is just putting

1013
00:46:22,730 --> 00:46:20,040
more procedures and more steps for

1014
00:46:25,070 --> 00:46:22,740
someone else to come in buy the land and

1015
00:46:27,500 --> 00:46:25,080
make you know a paradise for someone

1016
00:46:29,359 --> 00:46:27,510
else and it's it's just it's

1017
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:29,369
insufficient that's why I think it's

1018
00:46:34,070 --> 00:46:31,410
more important for each in each

1019
00:46:37,940 --> 00:46:34,080
individual that's why I it has to be

1020
00:46:39,620 --> 00:46:37,950
each individual that D colonizes that

1021
00:46:42,589 --> 00:46:39,630
each individual goes through the past

1022
00:46:46,700 --> 00:46:42,599
process of decolonisation that ever of

1023
00:46:49,130 --> 00:46:46,710
seeing things as they are not living in

1024
00:46:50,870 --> 00:46:49,140
this fantasy land because half the

1025
00:46:53,870 --> 00:46:50,880
people here are living in this fantasy

1026
00:46:56,900 --> 00:46:53,880
land you know that we can we can

1027
00:46:59,270 --> 00:46:56,910
continue living off of the milk that

1028
00:47:02,589 --> 00:46:59,280
comes from the US you know the federal

1029
00:47:05,420 --> 00:47:02,599
government and it's just insufficient

1030
00:47:08,390 --> 00:47:05,430
insufficient you know and I all our food

1031
00:47:11,930 --> 00:47:08,400
a lot a great portion of our food comes

1032
00:47:14,390 --> 00:47:11,940
from ships you know when each one of us

1033
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:14,400
can and there are communities mobilizing

1034
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:16,410
you know you know agricultural

1035
00:47:22,070 --> 00:47:19,530
communities yes but no there should

1036
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:22,080
there needs to be more how can how can

1037
00:47:29,660 --> 00:47:25,170
we be destabilized you know when we can

1038
00:47:32,060 --> 00:47:29,670
grow food we can create communities that

1039
00:47:34,790 --> 00:47:32,070
provide for these things when a

1040
00:47:36,650 --> 00:47:34,800
hurricane happens because hurricanes are

1041
00:47:39,470 --> 00:47:36,660
gonna continue happening people pretend

1042
00:47:40,910 --> 00:47:39,480
that we live in a bubble but we live in

1043
00:47:42,410 --> 00:47:40,920
the Caribbean and hurricanes pass

1044
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:42,420
through here so they will continue

1045
00:47:48,829 --> 00:47:44,970
passing through here as normal and they

1046
00:47:51,770 --> 00:47:48,839
will most likely get worse so you know

1047
00:47:54,020 --> 00:47:51,780
it's we don't we don't see the real

1048
00:47:56,359 --> 00:47:54,030
picture of the big picture we don't see

1049
00:47:59,480 --> 00:47:56,369
things as they are and that's why I

1050
00:48:02,900 --> 00:47:59,490
think we each individual this is me

1051
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:02,910
saying it but I cannot you know I cannot

1052
00:48:07,579 --> 00:48:05,010
make someone else go through a process

1053
00:48:10,010 --> 00:48:07,589
you know this is just how I view it you

1054
00:48:12,260 --> 00:48:10,020
know this is what is important to me the

1055
00:48:14,660 --> 00:48:12,270
process of decolonizing the self of

1056
00:48:18,230 --> 00:48:14,670
seeing things as they are and of

1057
00:48:23,570 --> 00:48:18,240
removing all this baggage of

1058
00:48:25,599 --> 00:48:23,580
[\h__\h] yeah well that's kind of what up

1059
00:48:28,010 --> 00:48:25,609
you know when we started talking about

1060
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:28,020
colonization and the magical community

1061
00:48:31,810 --> 00:48:29,490
and you know I mentioned that you use a

1062
00:48:35,839 --> 00:48:31,820
Spanish Toro duck and it's kind of like

1063
00:48:37,910 --> 00:48:35,849
it's it's so ingrained that it's hard to

1064
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:37,920
reverse-engineer it's hard to really

1065
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:41,010
unravel all the effects of it and maybe

1066
00:48:44,839 --> 00:48:43,170
that's not the goal maybe that shouldn't

1067
00:48:47,210 --> 00:48:44,849
be the goal like you mentioned the

1068
00:48:49,609 --> 00:48:47,220
decolonization of the mind maybe it

1069
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:49,619
should just be that it should be like we

1070
00:48:55,310 --> 00:48:51,570
can't change the past we're not going to

1071
00:48:58,700 --> 00:48:55,320
ever return to a pure and untainted

1072
00:48:59,810 --> 00:48:58,710
puerto rico puerto rican culture you

1073
00:49:01,670 --> 00:48:59,820
know it's always gonna have these

1074
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:01,680
influences that have been brought in and

1075
00:49:05,359 --> 00:49:03,810
I guess that's everywhere and is that

1076
00:49:07,599 --> 00:49:05,369
really the end of the world I mean I

1077
00:49:09,740 --> 00:49:07,609
guess it just is what it is but

1078
00:49:11,630 --> 00:49:09,750
decolonizing the individual on how you

1079
00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:11,640
look at that is probably the important

1080
00:49:15,859 --> 00:49:14,250
step to take yeah no and I'm not you

1081
00:49:18,230 --> 00:49:15,869
know I'm not I'm not saying we should go

1082
00:49:20,030 --> 00:49:18,240
back to a pristine place you know we're

1083
00:49:21,349 --> 00:49:20,040
never we've never been pristine you know

1084
00:49:23,930 --> 00:49:21,359
we've been moving from place to place

1085
00:49:26,060 --> 00:49:23,940
and interacting you know we've never

1086
00:49:29,270 --> 00:49:26,070
been pristine there's no such thing as

1087
00:49:33,170 --> 00:49:29,280
pristine nature know what I mean is that

1088
00:49:35,870 --> 00:49:33,180
is understanding our place knowing where

1089
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:35,880
we are and thinking okay what can we do

1090
00:49:40,430 --> 00:49:38,490
what can I do because I can you know

1091
00:49:44,780 --> 00:49:40,440
force anyone next to me what can I do

1092
00:49:46,670 --> 00:49:44,790
you know and find what you can do for

1093
00:49:52,220 --> 00:49:46,680
yourself and for your life and for your

1094
00:49:55,190 --> 00:49:52,230
family to make it clear to make it just

1095
00:49:58,430 --> 00:49:55,200
more and I don't want to sound authentic

1096
00:50:01,700 --> 00:49:58,440
because that's just as overused but just

1097
00:50:04,010 --> 00:50:01,710
to not just to have clarity to know

1098
00:50:07,250 --> 00:50:04,020
where you stand to know where you are to

1099
00:50:09,650 --> 00:50:07,260
know what you are and what is around you

1100
00:50:11,930 --> 00:50:09,660
you know and where the land that you

1101
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:11,940
walk on obviously that is very important

1102
00:50:16,670 --> 00:50:14,970
for me the land and so you know I'm not

1103
00:50:19,070 --> 00:50:16,680
I'm not I'm not saying that everyone

1104
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:19,080
should go back to a pristine place but

1105
00:50:23,570 --> 00:50:20,490
I'm saying everyone should be honest

1106
00:50:26,300 --> 00:50:23,580
with themselves and and learn to pay

1107
00:50:29,810 --> 00:50:26,310
attention and learn to be aware and

1108
00:50:31,550 --> 00:50:29,820
learn to be in place and be embody in

1109
00:50:31,910 --> 00:50:31,560
place because you know instead of living

1110
00:50:34,460 --> 00:50:31,920
in

1111
00:50:37,430 --> 00:50:34,470
fantasyland you know especially now with

1112
00:50:39,710 --> 00:50:37,440
cell phones and you know I very much

1113
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:39,720
agree with Peter gray sentiments you

1114
00:50:45,710 --> 00:50:43,170
know Society of the surfaces and no

1115
00:50:50,329 --> 00:50:45,720
substance so it's it's definitely the

1116
00:50:51,109 --> 00:50:50,339
case here as well and especially since

1117
00:50:53,269 --> 00:50:51,119
school

1118
00:50:55,519 --> 00:50:53,279
you know since very early age they're

1119
00:50:58,009 --> 00:50:55,529
telling you all these stories that are

1120
00:50:59,809 --> 00:50:58,019
dissonant with the land that you walk on

1121
00:51:02,359 --> 00:50:59,819
the place that you live and who you are

1122
00:51:05,269 --> 00:51:02,369
you asked half the people here when

1123
00:51:07,779 --> 00:51:05,279
there are poles are you white are you

1124
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:07,789
this and a lot of them will say white

1125
00:51:13,130 --> 00:51:11,130
you know and it's just funny I mean you

1126
00:51:16,549 --> 00:51:13,140
know okay there there are white people

1127
00:51:20,599 --> 00:51:16,559
here as in the color but you know it's

1128
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:20,609
just I don't know I think it's a more

1129
00:51:26,630 --> 00:51:24,930
it's it's it's more yeah well I really

1130
00:51:28,519 --> 00:51:26,640
think you're on a roll here and I do

1131
00:51:30,500 --> 00:51:28,529
think that this stuff is super important

1132
00:51:32,539 --> 00:51:30,510
you mentioned getting your food from

1133
00:51:35,420 --> 00:51:32,549
ships and that's a big thing like what

1134
00:51:37,579 --> 00:51:35,430
is a better reaction if you're angry at

1135
00:51:41,049 --> 00:51:37,589
the Empire and you want things to be

1136
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:41,059
decolonized ultimately is it better to

1137
00:51:46,009 --> 00:51:43,650
protest in the streets and then go have

1138
00:51:47,839 --> 00:51:46,019
a coca-cola that came off that ship or

1139
00:51:49,190 --> 00:51:47,849
is it better to just stay at home take

1140
00:51:50,930 --> 00:51:49,200
care of your family and have a community

1141
00:51:52,789 --> 00:51:50,940
garden yeah exactly

1142
00:51:54,410 --> 00:51:52,799
see that's what I'm thinking that's more

1143
00:51:56,839 --> 00:51:54,420
along the lines of what I'm thinking you

1144
00:52:00,140 --> 00:51:56,849
know how can you how can you stop

1145
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:00,150
relying on a system an infrastructure

1146
00:52:04,819 --> 00:52:01,890
that is insufficient that will not

1147
00:52:06,740 --> 00:52:04,829
support you that will not work for you

1148
00:52:09,829 --> 00:52:06,750
that will not serve you that will not

1149
00:52:11,930 --> 00:52:09,839
help you you know when when all this

1150
00:52:13,849 --> 00:52:11,940
this lady that's now in power one of us

1151
00:52:16,730 --> 00:52:13,859
cuz I think her name is there were ships

1152
00:52:18,859 --> 00:52:16,740
that had Goods and supplies for us that

1153
00:52:21,710 --> 00:52:18,869
did not make it to the community you

1154
00:52:24,670 --> 00:52:21,720
know because of some procedure brew

1155
00:52:27,740 --> 00:52:24,680
raucous bureaucracy order I don't know

1156
00:52:30,289 --> 00:52:27,750
but they didn't make it you know to us

1157
00:52:33,769 --> 00:52:30,299
to the community that needed that needed

1158
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:33,779
it so we had to figure out how to live

1159
00:52:39,799 --> 00:52:37,170
amongst ourselves and help ourselves you

1160
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:39,809
know help each other and help the other

1161
00:52:45,230 --> 00:52:43,050
and this one next to me in busy no and

1162
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:45,240
that's what I think we should we need to

1163
00:52:52,580 --> 00:52:49,170
learn to do yes because you know another

1164
00:52:55,250 --> 00:52:52,590
hurricane happens another catastrophe

1165
00:52:57,230 --> 00:52:55,260
happens and what are we gonna do you

1166
00:53:01,100 --> 00:52:57,240
know buy a lot of water bottles and

1167
00:53:04,460 --> 00:53:01,110
create more trash and when the water

1168
00:53:08,210 --> 00:53:04,470
bottles run out have no water and you

1169
00:53:10,130 --> 00:53:08,220
know eat canned food you know from where

1170
00:53:12,950 --> 00:53:10,140
what if when the kick and food is over

1171
00:53:16,190 --> 00:53:12,960
and now gas is going to go up so food is

1172
00:53:22,370 --> 00:53:16,200
going to go up here it just it's just

1173
00:53:26,330 --> 00:53:22,380
made the system is made to fail right to

1174
00:53:28,970 --> 00:53:26,340
fail for us and also to [\h__\h]

1175
00:53:31,700 --> 00:53:28,980
independence you can't be independent

1176
00:53:34,490 --> 00:53:31,710
and also suckle from the teat of the big

1177
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:34,500
machine you can't do both you know yeah

1178
00:53:38,570 --> 00:53:36,810
no definitely you can't do both no and

1179
00:53:40,340 --> 00:53:38,580
there always is gonna be another corrupt

1180
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:40,350
leader there is always gonna be another

1181
00:53:47,870 --> 00:53:44,610
hurricane as you say and it's like the

1182
00:53:50,450 --> 00:53:47,880
system keeps you weak but comfortable to

1183
00:53:51,890 --> 00:53:50,460
a degree and some of the things you have

1184
00:53:54,710 --> 00:53:51,900
to do to get away from it are

1185
00:53:57,410 --> 00:53:54,720
uncomfortable it's not super fun to go

1186
00:53:59,420 --> 00:53:57,420
farm every day and you know unless

1187
00:54:01,340 --> 00:53:59,430
that's your passion but it can be a lot

1188
00:54:03,890 --> 00:54:01,350
easier to go down to the 7-eleven

1189
00:54:05,660 --> 00:54:03,900
instead yeah but it's all wrapped up in

1190
00:54:08,450 --> 00:54:05,670
one thing it's a mindset you have to

1191
00:54:10,670 --> 00:54:08,460
really free your mind before you can

1192
00:54:13,010 --> 00:54:10,680
really free yourself because it's like

1193
00:54:15,050 --> 00:54:13,020
you can't be dependent on the system if

1194
00:54:17,090 --> 00:54:15,060
you're going to rebel against it like

1195
00:54:20,060 --> 00:54:17,100
you're saying yeah and I'm not saying

1196
00:54:24,290 --> 00:54:20,070
you know there are you have to know I

1197
00:54:28,100 --> 00:54:24,300
think each individual has to know the

1198
00:54:32,750 --> 00:54:28,110
cards they're playing so let's say I

1199
00:54:35,720 --> 00:54:32,760
want to step away or I want to find more

1200
00:54:38,810 --> 00:54:35,730
ways that I as a person that my body is

1201
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:38,820
sovereign so how can I do it in a system

1202
00:54:42,770 --> 00:54:40,650
that I still have to participate in as

1203
00:54:45,110 --> 00:54:42,780
well so you have to know the cards that

1204
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:45,120
you're playing you know and that means a

1205
00:54:49,100 --> 00:54:46,650
certain level of cunning that you have

1206
00:54:50,450 --> 00:54:49,110
to bring into play as well you know that

1207
00:54:52,910 --> 00:54:50,460
you have to know the cards you're

1208
00:54:54,410 --> 00:54:52,920
playing you know when you know your kid

1209
00:54:57,109 --> 00:54:54,420
if you have a kid and still has to go to

1210
00:55:01,040 --> 00:54:57,119
school you know so you have to know

1211
00:55:03,790 --> 00:55:01,050
you're going to build and and create

1212
00:55:06,950 --> 00:55:03,800
your life in a way that that is

1213
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:06,960
sovereign but also aware of the place

1214
00:55:13,630 --> 00:55:09,810
and the state that things are and where

1215
00:55:17,060 --> 00:55:13,640
you live because you still have to

1216
00:55:19,849 --> 00:55:17,070
participate in a way you know if you

1217
00:55:20,599 --> 00:55:19,859
live far and work far you still need a

1218
00:55:26,359 --> 00:55:20,609
car

1219
00:55:30,230 --> 00:55:26,369
you know so you have to 1/2 this is why

1220
00:55:32,900 --> 00:55:30,240
extremes are insufficient extremes do

1221
00:55:35,750 --> 00:55:32,910
not are not the answer because you have

1222
00:55:40,700 --> 00:55:35,760
to know the cars that you have what can

1223
00:55:43,609 --> 00:55:40,710
you do and what can't you do right also

1224
00:55:45,890 --> 00:55:43,619
I wanted to ask in a more practical you

1225
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:45,900
know in a more practical sense when it

1226
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:50,010
comes to people in Puerto Rico of course

1227
00:55:54,319 --> 00:55:52,530
it's hard to summarize what up people

1228
00:55:56,810 --> 00:55:54,329
think and yeah I know you've been very

1229
00:55:59,170 --> 00:55:56,820
careful to try to only speak for

1230
00:56:02,329 --> 00:55:59,180
yourself and not other people but in

1231
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:02,339
terms of Puerto Rico's nebulous state to

1232
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:05,930
some being a state would be further

1233
00:56:10,220 --> 00:56:07,770
colonization to become part of the

1234
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:10,230
United States would be the wrong

1235
00:56:15,349 --> 00:56:13,050
direction but maybe it's better than the

1236
00:56:17,900 --> 00:56:15,359
nebulous zone it's in and I think

1237
00:56:20,569 --> 00:56:17,910
completely removing the American

1238
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:20,579
presence especially suddenly would hurt

1239
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:22,290
a lot of people as it would anywhere

1240
00:56:27,290 --> 00:56:24,690
when they're dependent on a system but

1241
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:27,300
is there a popular opinion amongst the

1242
00:56:30,380 --> 00:56:29,010
people of what they would prefer where

1243
00:56:32,059 --> 00:56:30,390
they prefer statehood or where they

1244
00:56:34,190 --> 00:56:32,069
prefer America to just leave them alone

1245
00:56:36,530 --> 00:56:34,200
I mean what do you think that the most

1246
00:56:40,190 --> 00:56:36,540
the sentiment is that's most popular oh

1247
00:56:42,770 --> 00:56:40,200
man this is the this is an issue a very

1248
00:56:44,450 --> 00:56:42,780
contentious issue it just depends who's

1249
00:56:47,420 --> 00:56:44,460
in power because there are several

1250
00:56:50,329 --> 00:56:47,430
political parties big political parties

1251
00:56:52,490 --> 00:56:50,339
there's the one the red one on the

1252
00:56:56,990 --> 00:56:52,500
popular party which says let's stay

1253
00:57:01,160 --> 00:56:59,240
and they want to be part they want to be

1254
00:57:04,790 --> 00:57:01,170
a state and there's a green one that

1255
00:57:07,310 --> 00:57:04,800
they want independence and I say it in

1256
00:57:11,690 --> 00:57:07,320
colors because it's the easiest way and

1257
00:57:14,990 --> 00:57:11,700
I think that I think the majority of

1258
00:57:17,300 --> 00:57:15,000
people are divided no I can't say either

1259
00:57:18,859 --> 00:57:17,310
way I think there's a big division

1260
00:57:21,050 --> 00:57:18,869
between the ones that want to keep the

1261
00:57:24,230 --> 00:57:21,060
diamond nebula stone and the ones that

1262
00:57:26,599 --> 00:57:24,240
want to be a part that to be a state the

1263
00:57:30,260 --> 00:57:26,609
ones that want independence they've sort

1264
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:30,270
of that that movement that movement has

1265
00:57:38,870 --> 00:57:33,690
suffered a lot of misinformation and a

1266
00:57:41,109 --> 00:57:38,880
lot of violence and so it's quite sad so

1267
00:57:44,300 --> 00:57:41,119
there's not a lot of people don't

1268
00:57:47,300 --> 00:57:44,310
many people don't admit that they want

1269
00:57:49,310 --> 00:57:47,310
that or would consider that typically in

1270
00:57:51,500 --> 00:57:49,320
the polls I think they've done a couple

1271
00:57:54,020 --> 00:57:51,510
surveys they did a survey recently on

1272
00:57:55,940 --> 00:57:54,030
this and I think that was divided mostly

1273
00:57:57,470 --> 00:57:55,950
wanted like for a little bit of

1274
00:58:00,650 --> 00:57:57,480
difference in percentage wanted

1275
00:58:03,470 --> 00:58:00,660
statehood I believe I could be wrong but

1276
00:58:06,380 --> 00:58:03,480
I believe that you know we can do these

1277
00:58:08,150 --> 00:58:06,390
surveys and it can be decided by X

1278
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:08,160
amount of people that we want statehood

1279
00:58:12,410 --> 00:58:10,650
but then you know we also have to hear

1280
00:58:14,599 --> 00:58:12,420
from the federal government if this will

1281
00:58:16,700 --> 00:58:14,609
be legitimate if they will look at these

1282
00:58:20,359 --> 00:58:16,710
surveys you know at this poll that was

1283
00:58:23,060 --> 00:58:20,369
done and the people's opinion so it's

1284
00:58:26,089 --> 00:58:23,070
divided it's really divided and for me

1285
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:26,099
personally I don't care if we are a

1286
00:58:34,579 --> 00:58:31,410
state if we remain if we you know become

1287
00:58:38,930 --> 00:58:34,589
independent care because I think that

1288
00:58:42,380 --> 00:58:38,940
what we need to be focusing on is like I

1289
00:58:44,660 --> 00:58:42,390
mentioned our own selves our own place

1290
00:58:45,950 --> 00:58:44,670
our own land how do we take care of it

1291
00:58:48,020 --> 00:58:45,960
because that what is the point of

1292
00:58:49,849 --> 00:58:48,030
becoming independent and we can't even

1293
00:58:51,829 --> 00:58:49,859
subsist we don't even know how to you

1294
00:58:54,620 --> 00:58:51,839
know we don't that I've heard people say

1295
00:58:56,690 --> 00:58:54,630
oh my gosh can you imagine that my my

1296
00:58:59,210 --> 00:58:56,700
son grows up to have to be a farmer

1297
00:59:03,820 --> 00:58:59,220
that's terrible you know I've heard

1298
00:59:09,349 --> 00:59:03,830
people say that you know there's a many

1299
00:59:10,820 --> 00:59:09,359
stigmas around just po Rico and living

1300
00:59:16,220 --> 00:59:10,830
in Puerto Rico and being

1301
00:59:18,860 --> 00:59:16,230
part of the land and and so I really

1302
00:59:23,540 --> 00:59:18,870
don't care either way personally I don't

1303
00:59:26,150 --> 00:59:23,550
I could care less for me for me what I

1304
00:59:28,850 --> 00:59:26,160
care about is that how do we take care

1305
00:59:32,420 --> 00:59:28,860
of the land that we say we love you know

1306
00:59:34,820 --> 00:59:32,430
how do we how do we not take care in the

1307
00:59:36,830 --> 00:59:34,830
sense that we are here we are put here

1308
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:36,840
as saviors to take care of the land I

1309
00:59:40,490 --> 00:59:37,530
don't mean like that

1310
00:59:43,130 --> 00:59:40,500
but how do we know the land how do we

1311
00:59:46,190 --> 00:59:43,140
interact and respect the land the soil

1312
00:59:48,740 --> 00:59:46,200
you know we have all our rivers are

1313
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:48,750
polluted where are we gonna get water

1314
00:59:54,590 --> 00:59:52,290
from you know and it's just it just

1315
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:54,600
makes no sense we're talking about all

1316
00:59:57,980 --> 00:59:56,250
these political issues when we don't

1317
01:00:00,230 --> 00:59:57,990
even address the ones here in the land

1318
01:00:02,990 --> 01:00:00,240
and that's what I care about mostly the

1319
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:03,000
land that's what I care about that's

1320
01:00:07,970 --> 01:00:05,730
what what I want to see people looking

1321
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:07,980
at the land and seeing how they can be

1322
01:00:15,110 --> 01:00:10,650
better stewards of the land that they

1323
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:15,120
live in yes cheers to that I am in

1324
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:17,130
complete agreement and I'm sure if I was

1325
01:00:20,930 --> 01:00:19,050
in that situation that's how I would

1326
01:00:22,580 --> 01:00:20,940
feel I don't ever get what I want

1327
01:00:24,710 --> 01:00:22,590
politically anyway so I just stopped

1328
01:00:26,630 --> 01:00:24,720
paying attention and do my own thing and

1329
01:00:28,340 --> 01:00:26,640
I know I've taken up a lot of your time

1330
01:00:30,140 --> 01:00:28,350
this is the last kind of weird question

1331
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:30,150
I wanted to ask you before we just wrap

1332
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:32,970
up with your links and stuff but clearly

1333
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:34,530
you're aware of a lot of the dark

1334
01:00:38,930 --> 01:00:36,570
underbelly of the Empire and the Busey's

1335
01:00:41,570 --> 01:00:38,940
of people who don't have much of a voice

1336
01:00:43,910 --> 01:00:41,580
and of course the Jeffrey Epstein story

1337
01:00:46,550 --> 01:00:43,920
has been so huge lately I only bring it

1338
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:46,560
up because little st. James is like the

1339
01:00:51,620 --> 01:00:49,290
closest island to Puerto Rico and I'm

1340
01:00:54,110 --> 01:00:51,630
just curious if people in Puerto Rico or

1341
01:00:56,090 --> 01:00:54,120
are responding to the story in any

1342
01:00:59,210 --> 01:00:56,100
interesting ways or if that proximity

1343
01:01:01,190 --> 01:00:59,220
has come up at all as far as you've seen

1344
01:01:04,910 --> 01:01:01,200
nope

1345
01:01:10,039 --> 01:01:04,920
no I don't know if many people are aware

1346
01:01:12,710 --> 01:01:10,049
maybe some a select few a small group

1347
01:01:14,359 --> 01:01:12,720
and if they are they looked at it they

1348
01:01:16,250 --> 01:01:14,369
went oh my god that's disgusting and

1349
01:01:18,950 --> 01:01:16,260
then just they just kept going because

1350
01:01:22,069 --> 01:01:18,960
like I said they all the stories that

1351
01:01:25,940 --> 01:01:22,079
are filtered to the general population

1352
01:01:28,910 --> 01:01:25,950
is if it's Fairy Tail it's it's just

1353
01:01:31,309 --> 01:01:28,920
they only look at you know oh this great

1354
01:01:32,990 --> 01:01:31,319
Empire oh this you know and I don't want

1355
01:01:35,839 --> 01:01:33,000
to say that all pro Ricans are just

1356
01:01:39,799 --> 01:01:35,849
subservient but and because it's that's

1357
01:01:45,289 --> 01:01:39,809
not the case but very many of them do

1358
01:01:47,599 --> 01:01:45,299
not look at things as they are mm-hmm so

1359
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:47,609
no I don't mean I don't know that many

1360
01:01:51,260 --> 01:01:49,290
are aware of that I've never heard that

1361
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:51,270
in conversation I know I've never seen

1362
01:01:59,359 --> 01:01:54,450
it in the newspaper if it showed up it

1363
01:02:01,160 --> 01:01:59,369
was a very small article well I'm not

1364
01:02:03,530 --> 01:02:01,170
surprised because I often don't know

1365
01:02:05,599 --> 01:02:03,540
what's going on in the next town or

1366
01:02:08,210 --> 01:02:05,609
state so I can only imagine the next

1367
01:02:10,039 --> 01:02:08,220
island but I figured I had to ask the

1368
01:02:12,260 --> 01:02:10,049
world is a big place and these two

1369
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:12,270
islands are very close and that other

1370
01:02:18,380 --> 01:02:14,970
ones on the minds of a lot of people now

1371
01:02:21,559 --> 01:02:18,390
it's worth asking so anyway this has

1372
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:21,569
been really enjoyable I think everybody

1373
01:02:27,859 --> 01:02:23,970
listening had a good time before we call

1374
01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:27,869
it in to tell us about your writings or

1375
01:02:32,089 --> 01:02:29,970
your PDFs that you have or anything on

1376
01:02:33,950 --> 01:02:32,099
mist and ether just anything you might

1377
01:02:35,839 --> 01:02:33,960
want them to know about digging more

1378
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:35,849
into what you do or if you do any kind

1379
01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:38,730
of readings or anything like that yeah

1380
01:02:44,990 --> 01:02:41,490
well I don't at the moment do readings

1381
01:02:48,289 --> 01:02:45,000
online I do them live so here in Puerto

1382
01:02:50,450 --> 01:02:48,299
Rico I do have PDFs that you can

1383
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:50,460
download of what I've done with the

1384
01:02:56,690 --> 01:02:53,970
Tarot and basically I have the poetic

1385
01:03:00,500 --> 01:02:56,700
arc Onam which is just a look at the

1386
01:03:03,020 --> 01:03:00,510
majors the trumps and what they who they

1387
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:03,030
are using the cards to answer that

1388
01:03:08,089 --> 01:03:05,970
question the cards themselves I also

1389
01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:08,099
have and so these PDFs you can go on my

1390
01:03:12,540 --> 01:03:10,730
website missed in a third calm or

1391
01:03:15,150 --> 01:03:12,550
wordpress.com

1392
01:03:17,910 --> 01:03:15,160
and so I have those PDFs that you can go

1393
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:17,920
ahead and download and print available I

1394
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:19,930
also have another worldly journey with

1395
01:03:24,060 --> 01:03:22,090
the suit of source so it's just carto

1396
01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:24,070
mantak explorations I guess you could

1397
01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:27,730
say through the lens of poetry I also

1398
01:03:34,290 --> 01:03:31,570
have a piece that is part of 21 plus one

1399
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:34,300
camellia Elias edited the fortune

1400
01:03:41,430 --> 01:03:37,810
tellers manifesto and I have that I also

1401
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:41,440
have a story being published by the

1402
01:03:48,180 --> 01:03:44,770
Fiddler's Green coming out next year the

1403
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:48,190
Fiddler's screen parish magazine which

1404
01:03:51,930 --> 01:03:50,290
is a zine but yeah you can just

1405
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:51,940
basically go to mist and a third

1406
01:03:57,300 --> 01:03:54,850
wordpress.com and everything is there

1407
01:04:00,510 --> 01:03:57,310
everything that I do and I also have you

1408
01:04:03,780 --> 01:04:00,520
know all my social media you know

1409
01:04:06,180 --> 01:04:03,790
connections there as well and for now

1410
01:04:10,140 --> 01:04:06,190
that's all I do and I and I wanted to

1411
01:04:13,470 --> 01:04:10,150
keep it simple and not I'm not big on

1412
01:04:15,270 --> 01:04:13,480
promoting myself on social media so I

1413
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:15,280
wanted to keep it simple I have that

1414
01:04:20,010 --> 01:04:17,770
blog because I like to write and I love

1415
01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:20,020
the cards and I like to write about the

1416
01:04:24,210 --> 01:04:22,090
cards and I also like books and I like

1417
01:04:26,070 --> 01:04:24,220
to write about books as well and review

1418
01:04:29,940 --> 01:04:26,080
things and just talk about these things

1419
01:04:31,380 --> 01:04:29,950
and so it's all there and that's

1420
01:04:33,690 --> 01:04:31,390
basically where you can find me

1421
01:04:37,860 --> 01:04:33,700
I am also I think I'm I'm on Twitter and

1422
01:04:40,620 --> 01:04:37,870
Instagram you know regular places not on

1423
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:40,630
Facebook and that's it that's all that's

1424
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:43,330
all I have upcoming for now I'm still

1425
01:04:48,540 --> 01:04:46,210
writing I like my dream of finishing a

1426
01:04:53,430 --> 01:04:48,550
collection of short stories and so

1427
01:04:55,470 --> 01:04:53,440
that's it that's that's all for now very

1428
01:04:58,230 --> 01:04:55,480
cool well I do really like your blog

1429
01:05:00,750 --> 01:04:58,240
I've enjoyed the parts of animating the

1430
01:05:02,940 --> 01:05:00,760
taro pips that you've put up since we've

1431
01:05:04,950 --> 01:05:02,950
been in communication I've taken a look

1432
01:05:07,650 --> 01:05:04,960
at your monthly forecast and the couple

1433
01:05:09,600 --> 01:05:07,660
months that I've been able to digest it

1434
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:09,610
in real time and I think that's a lot of

1435
01:05:14,370 --> 01:05:12,130
fun I try to fold that into what I

1436
01:05:17,490 --> 01:05:14,380
expect a month to look like and of

1437
01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:17,500
course an otherworldly journey with the

1438
01:05:22,590 --> 01:05:20,170
suit of swords is is a blast too so I

1439
01:05:24,420 --> 01:05:22,600
think people find a lot of stuff there

1440
01:05:25,499 --> 01:05:24,430
too like your really good writer I hope

1441
01:05:26,969 --> 01:05:25,509
you have a lot of

1442
01:05:29,459 --> 01:05:26,979
success and get some good feedback from

1443
01:05:31,649 --> 01:05:29,469
this thank you thank you I hope so too

1444
01:05:33,419 --> 01:05:31,659
thank you well thanks again I know it's

1445
01:05:35,339 --> 01:05:33,429
a marathon session around here I really

1446
01:05:36,989 --> 01:05:35,349
appreciate your time and your work keep

1447
01:05:41,759 --> 01:05:36,999
fighting the good fight and take care

1448
01:05:46,079 --> 01:05:41,769
thank you I rank rank and that is how we

1449
01:05:48,959 --> 01:05:46,089
do it people Natalia l40 of mist in

1450
01:05:51,269 --> 01:05:48,969
ether I hope you had a good time I know

1451
01:05:53,639 --> 01:05:51,279
she was a little nervous as anyone would

1452
01:05:55,289 --> 01:05:53,649
be with their first interview especially

1453
01:05:58,559 --> 01:05:55,299
on a show that you've listened to before

1454
01:06:01,199 --> 01:05:58,569
and I thought she did as great as anyone

1455
01:06:04,229 --> 01:06:01,209
would of course she never claimed to be

1456
01:06:07,199 --> 01:06:04,239
an expert or an authority on Caribbean

1457
01:06:10,349 --> 01:06:07,209
magic traditions or spirit contact or

1458
01:06:12,419 --> 01:06:10,359
the politics of Puerto Rico but I still

1459
01:06:15,539 --> 01:06:12,429
thought she had a lot of insights to

1460
01:06:18,419 --> 01:06:15,549
share a lot of similar interests to tht

1461
01:06:20,699 --> 01:06:18,429
listeners and just being embedded in

1462
01:06:25,079 --> 01:06:20,709
that environment is interesting to

1463
01:06:27,449 --> 01:06:25,089
people who probably haven't been just

1464
01:06:31,199 --> 01:06:27,459
the difference in culture that everybody

1465
01:06:32,700 --> 01:06:31,209
has some type of spirit belief is pretty

1466
01:06:34,950 --> 01:06:32,710
foreign

1467
01:06:37,650 --> 01:06:34,960
but I've always liked bringing in people

1468
01:06:39,569 --> 01:06:37,660
who haven't done previous interviews

1469
01:06:41,370 --> 01:06:39,579
it's fun to have conversations that

1470
01:06:44,789 --> 01:06:41,380
aren't entirely mapped out in my head

1471
01:06:47,010 --> 01:06:44,799
beforehand and I've always liked the

1472
01:06:49,980 --> 01:06:47,020
surprise element of THC when a new

1473
01:06:53,039 --> 01:06:49,990
episode comes out and you don't know the

1474
01:06:56,490 --> 01:06:53,049
name you're like wow what is this it's

1475
01:06:59,849 --> 01:06:56,500
fun and I knew it was going to be more

1476
01:07:02,519 --> 01:06:59,859
conversational because this whole thing

1477
01:07:05,700 --> 01:07:02,529
stemmed from a single blog post which is

1478
01:07:07,859 --> 01:07:05,710
already light for the full focus of a

1479
01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:07,869
two-hour interview but it was also a

1480
01:07:14,819 --> 01:07:10,690
post that was outside of the norm for

1481
01:07:17,069 --> 01:07:14,829
her so this posts the politics of

1482
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:17,079
unnamed desire it really took on a life

1483
01:07:22,859 --> 01:07:21,010
of its own and look at it now I also

1484
01:07:25,019 --> 01:07:22,869
read it at a time when I was thinking

1485
01:07:27,089 --> 01:07:25,029
about the negative feedback over some

1486
01:07:30,180 --> 01:07:27,099
guests or topics that don't seem

1487
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:30,190
relevant to anyone outside of the US or

1488
01:07:36,510 --> 01:07:33,490
one guy said THC is the first world

1489
01:07:38,339 --> 01:07:36,520
problems of conspiracy podcast and it's

1490
01:07:41,730 --> 01:07:38,349
hard to know what string of shows

1491
01:07:43,829 --> 01:07:41,740
brought that comment on but people are

1492
01:07:46,430 --> 01:07:43,839
often saying to me oh gee another old

1493
01:07:50,370 --> 01:07:46,440
white guy on the higher side chats

1494
01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:50,380
interesting which i think is just as

1495
01:07:54,750 --> 01:07:51,970
demeaning as anything if you're really

1496
01:07:56,700 --> 01:07:54,760
gonna judge people as individuals it's

1497
01:07:58,589 --> 01:07:56,710
like so as an individual this old white

1498
01:08:00,839 --> 01:07:58,599
guy can't have something valuable to say

1499
01:08:04,319 --> 01:08:00,849
because there are a lot of other old

1500
01:08:08,819 --> 01:08:04,329
white guys saying things it's just never

1501
01:08:11,420 --> 01:08:08,829
good to judge people by that [\h__\h] but

1502
01:08:13,890 --> 01:08:11,430
regardless I do get it and I've tried to

1503
01:08:16,919 --> 01:08:13,900
diversify the lineup a little bit lately

1504
01:08:19,530 --> 01:08:16,929
we've added a few more ladies and try to

1505
01:08:23,399 --> 01:08:19,540
talk about some stuff that might be more

1506
01:08:25,410 --> 01:08:23,409
universally relevant or like today tried

1507
01:08:29,430 --> 01:08:25,420
to hone in on a pocket of the world that

1508
01:08:32,490 --> 01:08:29,440
isn't thought about enough but is just

1509
01:08:35,070 --> 01:08:32,500
as affected by the Empire maybe more so

1510
01:08:36,899 --> 01:08:35,080
than most pockets of the world and then

1511
01:08:40,010 --> 01:08:36,909
of course Natalia is also knowledgeable

1512
01:08:43,859 --> 01:08:40,020
about cartomancy Tarot and spiritualism

1513
01:08:46,740 --> 01:08:43,869
so we went for it and I liked it

1514
01:08:48,930 --> 01:08:46,750
this was my first show that I recorded

1515
01:08:50,789 --> 01:08:48,940
since being back from Austin and

1516
01:08:52,789 --> 01:08:50,799
gordon's as above event so a lot of this

1517
01:08:55,289 --> 01:08:52,799
stuff was fresh on my mind and

1518
01:08:57,870 --> 01:08:55,299
appropriate because she of course

1519
01:09:01,559 --> 01:08:57,880
follows their work to see if you liked

1520
01:09:03,329 --> 01:09:01,569
her vibe mist and ether wordpress.com is

1521
01:09:06,479 --> 01:09:03,339
where you can read more links in the

1522
01:09:08,579 --> 01:09:06,489
show notes as always but just like

1523
01:09:11,099 --> 01:09:08,589
Whitney Webb it's important to

1524
01:09:13,410 --> 01:09:11,109
acknowledge that the system does damage

1525
01:09:16,499 --> 01:09:13,420
to a lot of people in places that are

1526
01:09:19,700 --> 01:09:16,509
outside of it I think most Americans

1527
01:09:22,859 --> 01:09:19,710
would agree that we get some benefits I

1528
01:09:25,289 --> 01:09:22,869
mean you got to be pretty dense to not

1529
01:09:27,749 --> 01:09:25,299
admit that we get some benefits and

1530
01:09:31,229 --> 01:09:27,759
outside of our system it's just all

1531
01:09:33,570 --> 01:09:31,239
costs I don't know we want to try to

1532
01:09:35,729 --> 01:09:33,580
make sure we're covering as much diverse

1533
01:09:37,919 --> 01:09:35,739
ground as we can and make sure that

1534
01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:37,929
we're not just turning over the same

1535
01:09:43,859 --> 01:09:41,770
five rocks week after week also I know

1536
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:43,869
we have listeners in Puerto Rico and I'm

1537
01:09:49,289 --> 01:09:45,730
sure they'll be happy to see this pop up

1538
01:09:51,599 --> 01:09:49,299
and I really respect Natalia's efforts

1539
01:09:54,030 --> 01:09:51,609
to not speak for other people especially

1540
01:09:56,640 --> 01:09:54,040
people who oftentimes don't get to speak

1541
01:09:58,620 --> 01:09:56,650
for themselves it's a tough thing to

1542
01:10:01,050 --> 01:09:58,630
navigate because we do it without even

1543
01:10:03,629 --> 01:10:01,060
noticing sometimes we generalized and

1544
01:10:06,530 --> 01:10:03,639
oversimplify and when a sentence starts

1545
01:10:08,580 --> 01:10:06,540
with it seems like all the people want

1546
01:10:11,609 --> 01:10:08,590
no matter what you're talking about

1547
01:10:13,859 --> 01:10:11,619
you're probably wrong that was just

1548
01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:13,869
another element to the conversation that

1549
01:10:19,950 --> 01:10:17,770
came into play today but as always THD

1550
01:10:23,010 --> 01:10:19,960
interviews are two hours instead of just

1551
01:10:26,189 --> 01:10:23,020
the one if you are a plus member and in

1552
01:10:28,430 --> 01:10:26,199
today's we talked about how to find your

1553
01:10:32,070 --> 01:10:28,440
agency within the landscape you're in

1554
01:10:34,500 --> 01:10:32,080
Natal ia's monthly Tarot forecasts her

1555
01:10:39,060 --> 01:10:34,510
favorite decks and why they seem more

1556
01:10:42,240 --> 01:10:39,070
potent st. Cyprian tips for ancestral

1557
01:10:45,450 --> 01:10:42,250
contact understanding the life death

1558
01:10:47,239 --> 01:10:45,460
cycle with Natalia's added spiritual

1559
01:10:49,939 --> 01:10:47,249
context

1560
01:10:53,529 --> 01:10:49,949
what trends she sees coming in magic and

1561
01:10:57,319 --> 01:10:53,539
a little bit about how racism or

1562
01:11:00,979 --> 01:10:57,329
colonization might color our outlook on

1563
01:11:03,890 --> 01:11:00,989
indigenous magical traditions it's that

1564
01:11:06,529 --> 01:11:03,900
pesky colonization of the mind let me

1565
01:11:08,450 --> 01:11:06,539
tell you there's actually an author from

1566
01:11:10,790 --> 01:11:08,460
Kenya he's in his 80s but he wrote a

1567
01:11:12,709 --> 01:11:10,800
book called decolonizing the mind the

1568
01:11:15,290 --> 01:11:12,719
politics of language in African

1569
01:11:16,700 --> 01:11:15,300
literature and I tried to track him down

1570
01:11:19,850 --> 01:11:16,710
for an interview and I haven't heard

1571
01:11:22,609 --> 01:11:19,860
back yet but that is a great intriguing

1572
01:11:25,790 --> 01:11:22,619
book title and higher side news the

1573
01:11:27,950 --> 01:11:25,800
developers are definitely done with the

1574
01:11:31,399 --> 01:11:27,960
work I've got a few more things to do on

1575
01:11:33,439 --> 01:11:31,409
my side emails related to the changes

1576
01:11:35,779 --> 01:11:33,449
are still coming in but I've got about

1577
01:11:38,839 --> 01:11:35,789
95% of people answered and they're

1578
01:11:40,729 --> 01:11:38,849
problem solved but now it's sort of

1579
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:40,739
crunch time for the end of the month

1580
01:11:47,509 --> 01:11:44,010
here so I should have this last show out

1581
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:47,519
on Monday actually I have to but it's a

1582
01:11:51,890 --> 01:11:49,530
good one with a returning guest to talk

1583
01:11:54,169 --> 01:11:51,900
about the corrupt banking system and

1584
01:11:56,299 --> 01:11:54,179
some more advantageous banking

1585
01:11:59,209 --> 01:11:56,309
structures that have been tried and make

1586
01:12:01,100 --> 01:11:59,219
life a lot better for the people in them

1587
01:12:04,279 --> 01:12:01,110
then the fractional reserve debt based

1588
01:12:07,100 --> 01:12:04,289
system of rule we have now so stay tuned

1589
01:12:10,009 --> 01:12:07,110
same bat-time same bat-channel

1590
01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:10,019
and I'll see you then I've done my part

1591
01:12:15,919 --> 01:12:13,050
your move agents of the Empire silencers

1592
01:12:19,550 --> 01:12:15,929
of voices and colonizers of the

1593
01:12:24,419 --> 01:12:19,560
Caribbean you're [\h__\h]

1594
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:24,429
sweet dreams to the we're calling them

1595
01:12:34,760 --> 01:12:30,010
out on TAC uncovering secrets

1596
01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:34,770
seas everybody's looking for something

1597
01:12:40,250 --> 01:12:39,730
some of them want to use you some of

1598
01:12:42,630 --> 01:12:40,260
them

1599
01:12:46,790 --> 01:12:42,640
[Music]

1600
01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:46,800
some of them want to abuse you

1601
01:12:52,910 --> 01:12:49,050
stahma damn

1602
01:12:58,590 --> 01:12:52,920
be abused

1603
01:13:16,479 --> 01:12:58,600
[Music]

1604
01:13:19,490 --> 01:13:16,489
[Applause]

1605
01:13:22,060 --> 01:13:19,500
the Sunday

1606
01:13:22,380 --> 01:13:22,070
[Music]

1607
01:13:31,350 --> 01:13:22,390
[Applause]